Film stucks in reel

[Laci Toth]

Hi everyone,

Lately I’ve issues loading 35mm film in Paterson tank system 4. I’ve loaded countless rolls without any problems and it’s the third roll I consider give it to a lab to do it for me. I just don’t know why I failed to succeed.
It’s just getting harder and harder to turn and then the film just stucks approx. half way and it spits out the film where the metal balls are.
As I have a one reel tank and a three reel tank version I could try it with different reels with no success. Everytime it was the same.
I use a large changing bag and I thought it might be the tight space which could twist the negs and it somehow causes this. But why now? Why not two months ago or a year ago? I’ve also done that I stood up so the bag was hanging from my arm and there was enough space inside the bag for the reel just like how I’d do in a darkroom. All the same, just stucks and that’s it.
I shaked the reel and checked the outer parts if the film would stuck somewhere so I could move it just by tapping it a bit but no.
Then where the strip begins I cut pieces out so it was rather a triangle then a rectangle shape so to avoid the possibility to stuck again because I thought that it might be the side of the strip. Nothing helped.
I tested it with developed negs and it was all fine. I put this already developed film in the changing bag to simulate the same situation and it was all fine. I’ve done it approx. 3-4 times without any probs.
The I tried it with the neg I’m about to develop and it was again no success.
Is there any difference between the developed and the just exposed neg that affects something? I mean the developed neg is fixed and there might be something different (I don’t know what) like the plastic strip becomes harder after it has been developed so it’s easier to load in the reel, but it doesn’t seem likely. Or I don’t know I’m just blindly guessing.
I’ve read on forums that if the reel is not completely dry it can produce this phenomena. But my reels are bone dry.
I’ve also heard that I should try running a sharp pencil around the groves of the reel and the graphite from the pencil lead ''greases'' the groves of the reel and film slides in very easily. I haven’t tried this.
I’ve also read that I should get a metal reel and problem is gone which seems okay and probably I will go with that if that’s true but still what is this? Why I succeeded so many times and what’s wrong now?

 

[R.Gould]

Take a sharpened soft pencil, run it around the groves of the reel and load the film, I have been doing this for what seems like ever, around 50 years and it has never failed me, and in the at least fifty years I have never had a film stick in a Paterson reel, or any other plastic reel, I never wash, scrub, or do anything else to my reels, they come out of the wetting agent, film is unloaded, hung up to dry, and reels are put away to dry, next film, pencil around the groves, load film, no problem
Richard

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Provided camera does not deform perforations, so film is intact in that sense, all I would say is dry the reel really well. Every time I go in, I dry reel with hair drier so it is not just dry, but somewhat warm ot the touch before it goes in the changing bag. Whenever I ran into your issue it was always about moisture in the grooves. Dirt or obstruction is a possibility, but that is easy to inspect for. Is your bag free of small debris that might get in the way during loading film?

 

[pentaxuser]

In theory if a developed film loads OK then as far as I know the same should apply to undeveloped film unless you can think of a reason why the undeveloped film might have moisture on it. However it is worthwhile trying that Richard said. I do not use Paterson reels but the pencil trick should work on any plastic reel. It did on my Jobo reels. Before using the pencil try scrubbing the reel with a toothbrush with washing-up liquid and hot water then drying it thoroughly

I hope this works for you

pentaxuser

 

[Laci Toth]

Alright, I try this pencil method tomorrow and will get back to you with the outcome.

 

[Hatchetman]

Suggest you first scrub well with a brush and soap and water and let dry overnight. There may have been introduced some sticky material at some point -- I have had the same thing happen to me. Photo-Flo was the problem with me I think. If there is some "goo" of some sort on the reel surface, the pencil trick will not necessarily help.

 

[Laci Toth]

Suggest you first scrub well with a brush and soap and water and let dry overnight. There may have been introduced some sticky material at some point -- I have had the same thing happen to me. Photo-Flo was the problem with me I think. If there is some "goo" of some sort on the reel surface, the pencil trick will not necessarily help.

All the reels are clean and clear of any sticky material. I also thought about this but couldn’t detect anything.
I’m wondering if friction can cause this so the reel sucks the strip and that’s the reason it slows down and stops.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

All the reels are clean and clear of any sticky material. I also thought about this but couldn’t detect anything.
I’m wondering if friction can cause this so the reel sucks the strip and that’s the reason it slows down and stops.

If everything is clean AND moisture free there is no issues. Is leading edge of film cut cleanly, it should be as square as possible which is not that hard by feel?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Let us know your progress so we can coach you through your work. All of us started where you are and have had the same problems.

 

[BSP]

The only times I have trouble loading my Paterson reels is when I try to after only just rewinding and removing the film cartridge from my camera. If I let the exposed film first rest a day or two it loads much easier.

I suspect it has something to do with the film curl resetting.

 

[MattKing]

It is likely a problem with humidity. Changing bags trap moist air, and struggling with a development reel makes it worse.

 

[Laci Toth]

If everything is clean AND moisture free there is no issues. Is leading edge of film cut cleanly, it should be as square as possible which is not that hard by feel?

I always cut square and never had a problem. The reason why I tried cutting the triangle shape is because I wanted to find a solution for this problem but it didn’t help.

 

[Laci Toth]

Let us know your progress so we can coach you through your work. All of us started where you are and have had the same problems.

Tomorrow I try the pencil method advised here and will let everyone know how it went.

 

[Laci Toth]

It is likely a problem with humidity. Changing bags trap moist air, and struggling with a development reel makes it worse.

I always take out the film from the fridge (in summer) hours before I develop them. During winter months I store all the films with the chemicals in the garage where there’s no heating.
This film which I failed to load was in the room for hours prior the loading.
Moisture can develop quickly so I can easily imagine that it can cause this problem but how is it possible that the already developed film just runs into the reel all the way and doesn’t stuck at all?

 

[eli griggs]

I've used the Patterson System off and on, for long periods, for at least 40 plus years and the two issues I had on occasion were, stuck ball, and any moisture on a clean reel will surface grip the film.

I made a habit, pretty early on, of using HOT tap water to soak/rinse reels and that pretty much solved those issues.

 

[Down Under]

An old technique from a commercial photographer I knew in my home town in Canada in the 1960s.

Take a very soft toothbrush - the ones the hotel chains like Ibis give out when you book rooms with them - and some sodium bicarbonate. Wet the toothbrush, dip into a saucer with a thin layer of bicarb, and lightly brush the inner grooves of your tank reels. Do this about once every three months. Presto! no film sticking - that is, as long as both your films and the reels are dry to start with. Keep your reel loading time in the changing bag to the barest minimum.

This has worked well for me for the past half century.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Matt has a point. Undeveloped and developed films are different and react to moisture differently. Undeveloped films can be sticky if the changing bag's humidity climbs. It happens to my students often as it takes them a long time to load film. The pencil idea sounds interesting.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Clipping the corners of 135 and120 film before loading on to reels solves some of the loading problems such as film sticking at the point the film is half way loading on to the reel.

 

[Laci Toth]

I've used the Patterson System off and on, for long periods, for at least 40 plus years and the two issues I had on occasion were, stuck ball, and any moisture on a clean reel will surface grip the film.

I made a habit, pretty early on, of using HOT tap water to soak/rinse reels and that pretty much solved those issues.

So you mean soak it in hot tap water for a while (few minutes) and then let them dry and will solve the issue?

 

[Laci Toth]

Matt has a point. Undeveloped and developed films are different and react to moisture differently. Undeveloped films can be sticky if the changing bag's humidity climbs. It happens to my students often as it takes them a long time to load film. The pencil idea sounds interesting.

Yes, that was my thought as well as the two reacted so differently.
It only takes a minute or less as soon as all the stuff is in the bag (film canister opener, scissors, the tank and the reel and the film) so I can try cutting back time but to be honest this always seemed fast enough for me.

 

[Laci Toth]

Clipping the corners of 135 and120 film before loading on to reels solves some of the loading problems such as film sticking at the point the film is half way loading on to the reel.

Yes, I’ve done this with no success. I think it’s really the moisture what should be eliminated.

 

[Laci Toth]

An old technique from a commercial photographer I knew in my home town in Canada in the 1960s.

Take a very soft toothbrush - the ones the hotel chains like Ibis give out when you book rooms with them - and some sodium bicarbonate. Wet the toothbrush, dip into a saucer with a thin layer of bicarb, and lightly brush the inner grooves of your tank reels. Do this about once every three months. Presto! no film sticking - that is, as long as both your films and the reels are dry to start with. Keep your reel loading time in the changing bag to the barest minimum.

This has worked well for me for the past half century.

It sounds interesting. What if I do this but moisture develops during that short time while the film and the reel is in the bag? Will this help? You said to keep the film and the reel dry and the loading time to the barest minimum. If I only spend a minute in the bag and moisture can develop withing no time will this method help it?

 

[grain elevator]

Have you cut off the part of the leader that is very bent from the take-up spool (if your camera does that)? If not, do that! It'll have been exposed to light when you loaded the camera anyway.

 

[MattKing]

The humidity is in the air! Plus, when your hands are in the changing bag, that adds humidity as well.
Changing bags and I have never got along well.
If you have a room you can make dark (even if only at night), then it is a good idea to load your tanks there, and then develop the film later when you can.
Just be sure to mark the tanks.
One further point - hold the reels gently, with your finger tips if possible. The harder you squeeze, the more likely you will cause the reels to bind.

 

[Laci Toth]

Have you cut off the part of the leader that is very bent from the take-up spool (if your camera does that)? If not, do that! It'll have been exposed to light when you loaded the camera anyway.

Yes, sure I always cut it off.