Film Still Popular Among Pros

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Three Cheers for Film!

Sep 19, 1:49 PM EDT
Film Still Popular Among the Pros

By BEN DOBBIN
AP Business Writer

ROCHESTER, N.Y. (AP) -- Photojournalist Chris Usher usually relies on digital technology. When he wants something special, though, he reaches for a film camera.

"I shoot just as much digital as the next guy out of necessity," Usher said. "I use film probably a third of the time, on personal projects 100 percent of the time. There's a richness and a depth of field that becomes more prevalent when you're shooting film as opposed to digital. It has a tangible feel to it."

Even as the digital revolution is transforming photography, more than two-thirds of professional photographers in a survey released Wednesday said they still prefer using film for certain tasks, praising its ability to add an almost organic quality to pictures.

Eastman Kodak Co., which surveyed 9,000 U.S. photographers who earn their livelihoods freeze-framing news, weddings, nature, fashion and other worlds, will draw some comfort from its findings.

Putting the finishing touches to a drastic, four-year digital makeover, Kodak is still betting that film, its cash cow for a century, will continue to generate enough revenue to see it through the most painful passage in its 126-year history. Kodak's work force will slip to 34,000 at year-end, half what it was five years ago.

Even while its chemical-based businesses shrink, Kodak remains the world's top maker of silver-halide film, and the storied product - which George Eastman launched in 1889 - retains an ardent following.

"If a client gives me the choice, I'm going to shoot film," said Matthew Jordan Smith, a fashion and celebrity photographer in Los Angeles. "With digital, there's this whole thing of, 'Oh, it looks good enough to get by, it's fine, it'll do.' You didn't have that with film. Was it good enough? It was great!

"Digital will continue to get better and better and better," Smith said. "Maybe film will become an art thing, who knows? But there will always be those who want to shoot film."

The survey was mailed in mid-August to more than 40,000 of the nation's estimated 64,000 full-time and part-time professional photographers, and 75 percent of the 9,000 who responded said they will continue to use film even as they embrace digital imaging.

Sixty-eight percent said they prefer film over digital for a variety of applications. Many cited its superiority for shooting larger-format and black-and-white images, the adaptability of color film to a wider range of lighting conditions, and film archives being far easier to store than electronic ones.

Usher, a freelancer who covers the White House for both Newsweek and Time magazines and is coming out with a book illustrating hurricane-ravaged New Orleans, isn't surprised his colleagues expressed a lingering loyalty to some of the old methods.

"Film by its very physical nature is layers of grains of different colors," he said. "It's hard to describe, but it does actually have a micro three-dimensionality that you can see in that weird way."

By contrast, he said, "digital pictures look very flat, and even the prints. ... Digital looks literally cut-and-pasted.

"Probably the biggest disadvantage of digital - I think if you ask most photographers, at least the ones that are honest will admit this - is you end up spending more time behind the computer than you do behind the camera. If you're shooting raw, you still have to go in there and adjust the images, tweak 'em, tone 'em and get everything just so. With film, there it is."

While "digital is here to stay," Usher expects film's fortunes will someday brighten once more.

"In fact, now that the honeymoon and the infatuation is starting to run its course," he said, "I think that in the next five years you're going to see almost a retro backlash because of the things that film gives you that you can't get with digital."
 

fhovie

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Soooooo ..... when were they going to discontinue TRI-X??
 

SuzanneR

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Here's a link to a podcast on Kodak's website of Chris Usher.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/pressCenter/cpqpodcasts.jhtml?pq-path=2/8/2509/10940

He's a friend, and someone I assigned to numerous shoots back when I was a photo editor at USNews. In fact, he even photographed my wedding. I saw this podcast recently, and got back in touch with him after several years out of touch... he told me he did John Coffer's wetplate workshop recently.

I think a lot of these guys are shooting both, and I think they are finding that if time allows, they have the flexibility to use film when it's the right medium.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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Glad to be at the forefront of the retro backlash.
 
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Soooooo ..... when were they going to discontinue TRI-X??

If sales continue to support production, I see no reason that the subject should even need to come up. It always makes good sense that if Tri X is the perfect film for you then you should always have a sizeable inventory just to be assured of consistency of emulsion character if nothing else. I maintain a 23 cubic foot chest freezer plumb full of Kodak film at all times.

By the way I was told that July and August numbers for Kodak conventional sales were fabulous.

I continue to remind myself of all of the people that five years ago predicted that sheet film would be simply unavailable and people that chose to not rot in front of a computer monitor to practice photography would have to start painting by numbers. My goodness, we are fortunate to have a wide selection of quality sheet films and it is only getting better.

Cheers!
 

rusty71

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That's good news. Kodak has taken quite a drubbing on internet forums lately. I must confess to adding to the din. But in all the years I've shot my own work, developed stuff for pros, and student work, Kodak has never shown a factory emulsion defect.
 

tim_walls

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That's good news. Kodak has taken quite a drubbing on internet forums lately. I must confess to adding to the din. But in all the years I've shot my own work, developed stuff for pros, and student work, Kodak has never shown a factory emulsion defect.

Indeed; I'm actually fairly new to film photography, as a defector from digital - only been shooting film for about a year (and shooting it exclusively for 9 months or so,) so I guess I missed the worst of things - the general dislike for the big K is hard to miss though.

I almost feel guilty for preferring some Kodak films - I'd take one roll of Ektachrome E100 VS over half a dozen Velvia; and I'll take TMax instead of Delta any day of the week. (That said, I prefer HP5+ to TriX, love Ilford generally (FP4+ and PanF also rock,) and Provia is my 'standard' film.)


It is sad that one doesn't get the sense of commitment from Kodak that one does from Ilford or Fuji (I'm still smarting over the loss of EIR,) and K certainly know how to hit you in the pocket as well, but on the whole I guess I can't see how constantly moaning about them really helps. I'd rather let the digital mob bicker endlessly about whether their Nikon or Canon or Sony sensor is best - I think us lot should take the morally higher ground and not squabble about Kodak or Ilford or Fuji :smile:
 
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It is sad that one doesn't get the sense of commitment from Kodak that one does from Ilford or Fuji (I'm still smarting over the loss of EIR,) and K certainly know how to hit you in the pocket as well, but on the whole I guess I can't see how constantly moaning about them really helps. I'd rather let the digital mob bicker endlessly about whether their Nikon or Canon or Sony sensor is best - I think us lot should take the morally higher ground and not squabble about Kodak or Ilford or Fuji :smile:

Wow. Well articulated Tim.

I will tell you first hand that Kodak is making a serious effort to mend fences. Considering the serious staff reductions that have taken place to allow Kodak to compete in their new business model, excellent products and a high standard of quality control is still a reality that we can all enjoy and appreciate. Good shooting!
 
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fhovie

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Kodak is the gorilla to throw stones at - that is because they set the standard - we compare film quality to Kodak - we compare selection to Kodak - others are better or worse but who do we compare them with? It is the photo icon: early cameras were not called cameras, they were called kodaks (and still are in some parts of the US) So love them or hate them, they are the scale and that is why when they do or don't meet expectations, photographers respond. Kind of like D76 (a Kodak thing) all developers are compared to it - It is good stuff but maybe not what you use.
 

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Three Cheers for Film!
"... Digital looks literally cut-and-pasted"

Finally, a way for me to describe how I have always felt about the look of a lot of digital photographs I have seen. I never have been able to put my finger on a good description til now.

This was a refreshing piece to read. Thanks.

Chuck
 

patrickjames

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You have to keep in mind that professionals use color film for the most part, and many rolls of film at a time. Some professionals will shoot hundreds of rolls a week. You would have to find a few hundred amateurs to go through that much film in a week.

The survey doesn't surprise me. I know many people who are sick of digital manipulating. It takes the same time to take the picture, but twice as much time is spent working on the files, usually, and that is a lot of extra time compared to film. I know I am sick of it myself, and I am starting to try to sway people away from asking for digital unless it is easier on me.

Patrick
 
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Cheryl Jacobs

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Patrick, I'm curious about your statement that professionals use color film for the most part. What is the basis for such a broad statement? Most pro photogs I know use digital for color and a combo and film and digital (heavier on the film side) for B&W.

I would think that color film would be more in jeopardy than B&W, particularly on the amateur side.

- CJ
 
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It is the photo icon: early cameras were not called cameras, they were called kodaks (and still are in some parts of the US).

Oh my...

"Get all the kids around the Christmas tree while I go grab the kodak..."

And here I thought I was the last man standing who knew that. Back in the day it was my Dad's Kodak Retina Ia loaded with Kodachrome. I still have the camera on a shelf in the darkroom. And the slides still look brand new.

Ken
 

bob100684

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Patrick, I'm curious about your statement that professionals use color film for the most part. What is the basis for such a broad statement? Most pro photogs I know use digital for color and a combo and film and digital (heavier on the film side) for B&W.

I would think that color film would be more in jeopardy than B&W, particularly on the amateur side.

- CJ
Your thoughts on color being more vulnerable seem to agree with my experiences as a lab tech.
 

naturephoto1

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Your thoughts on color being more vulnerable seem to agree with my experiences as a lab tech.

This does not agree with my local Pro Lab. They see more color film than they do digital for printing or B & W. In fact they report that the Pros in the Allentown and Bethlehem, PA seem to be shooting more film than Digital, but I can not confirm that.

Rich
 

DrPablo

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I'm interested to know if Fuji and Kodak release sales figures, profits, projections, etc. to non-shareholders.

Surveys like this make everyone feel good, as do anecdotes about Kodak's shareholders pushing for a greater film committment.

But if the bottom line is profitability, then I'm more interested to hear if and how film can be profitable to produce.

Which begs the next question: will there ever be another third party to produce color films? Can you envision scenarios in which Ilford or Efke or Bergger ever decide to jump into the color market?
 
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I'm interested to know if Fuji and Kodak release sales figures, profits, projections, etc. to non-shareholders.

Surveys like this make everyone feel good, as do anecdotes about Kodak's shareholders pushing for a greater film committment.

But if the bottom line is profitability, then I'm more interested to hear if and how film can be profitable to produce.

Which begs the next question: will there ever be another third party to produce color films? Can you envision scenarios in which Ilford or Efke or Bergger ever decide to jump into the color market?

As a publically traded company you can access Kodak's publically filed documents including financials. Unfortunately, for obvious proprietary reasons, it is not necessary for these companies to provide the detail that would allow you to specifically track film sales only. The data is category totals as is their profit.

I am not aware of Fuji providing any sales data as is the case with Ilford, which I believe is a private company.

As to your question about anyther player coming into the color film game, the likely candidate will likely come from China or India as their economic growth will eventually spawn the market demand necessary to support this investment. The current players have yet to complete the uncoupling of their past investment in equipment, facilities and personal to the new market conditions going forward.

You will not find hard numbers from anyone on future film sales projections because these would inevitably be the gospel according to Morgan Stanley et al and you better not be wrong!
 

roteague

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Your thoughts on color being more vulnerable seem to agree with my experiences as a lab tech.

I don't have any definitive answer, however, I think that people are more willing to send their film away for processing than they have done in the past. It may be that the bigger labs are getting more work while the smaller ones are starving. The lab I use hasn't raised its prices to offset dwindling processing orders, so they must still be processing enough orders to make it worthwhile.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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If you look at most commercial and editorial photography, it's in color, and some of that is film, and pros who are shooting this work are taking a lot of shots, so I think that's what Patrick is thinking about. I suspect that even if a lot of professionals are using digital for color, those that shoot film probably shoot more color film than B&W. The professional film labs in New York are certainly handling a lot more color than B&W, and they run large dip and dunks for C-41 and E-6. Then again, New York is a unique market.
 

DrPablo

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As a publically traded company you can access Kodak's publically filed documents including financials. Unfortunately, for obvious proprietary reasons, it is not necessary for these companies to provide the detail that would allow you to specifically track film sales only. The data is category totals as is their profit.

Here's a little bit of what I can find online (a report from 1st quarter 2007). A 16% operating margin doesn't strike me as that ominous, but I'm no expert in this stuff (I've invested a lot more in film than in film companies).

-- Film Products Group sales were $458 million, down from $500
million in the year-ago quarter, representing a decrease of
8%, a significantly lower decline than has been recently
experienced, reflecting high single-digit year-over-year
growth in the entertainment film business. Earnings from
operations were $74 million, compared with $51 million in the
year-ago quarter, representing a strong earnings improvement
in the face of declining revenue. During the first quarter of
2007, the group achieved a 16% operating margin, as compared
with 10% in the year-ago quarter, which was ahead of company
expectations. The operating margin performance resulted from
growth in entertainment imaging and also reflects the
company's actions to reduce traditional infrastructure ahead
of declines. This improved performance was particularly
impressive given higher silver costs during the quarter..
 

Sirius Glass

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Funny, I posted the Kodak press announcement on Popular Photography's "Film Lives". The big posters, mostly Popular Photography's staff and their apologists, both of whom are big D-junkie-pusher-types, immediately jumped on me as a troll [on "Film Lives"? give me a f--king break!] and that I am beating a dead horse!

It is interesting that Popular Photography, is so concerned about killing film that they have to put up a sham website.

Popular Photography cannot even do honest reporting for fear that they will loose Digi-Dollars!

Steve
 

JanaM

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Agfa-Gevaert, Ferrania, Lucky make colour film

Which begs the next question: will there ever be another third party to produce color films? Can you envision scenarios in which Ilford or Efke or Bergger ever decide to jump into the color market?

Dear Paul,

Agfa-Gevaert (Belgium, www.agfa.com), Ferrania (Italy) and Lucky (China) are producing colour film as well.
The current Agfa-Gevaert colour films have their origin in aerial photography. You can buy one of them as Rollei Scan Film.
Attention: Agfa-Gevaert in Mortsel, Belgium is not the AgfaPhoto in Germany. Two different companys!
The Ferrania and Lucky films are normal films for amateur use.

Best regards,
Jana
 

roteague

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Funny, I posted the Kodak press announcement on Popular Photography's "Film Lives". The big posters, mostly Popular Photography's staff and their apologists, both of whom are big D-junkie-pusher-types, immediately jumped on me as a troll [on "Film Lives"? give me a f--king break!] and that I am beating a dead horse!

The magazine lives in a world of its own, divorced from reality. In their case, equipment matters more than art.
 
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Rich Ullsmith

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Perhaps I have a simple view of how large companies work, but if somebody at Kodak would log onto Ebay and look at the bidding on their old expired Ektalure papers . . .people are willing to pay far more than the original retail price in hope that the stuff is still good. Is there a reason the light bulbs aren't coming on?
 
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