Film photography as fashion and the decline of the hipster

removed account4 · Jun 23, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
And about David's topic?

If the lo-fi film craze ends, there will likely be repercussions in the film marketplace.

What do you think about that?

Ken

what do i think about that?

ummm ... maybe there are better things to worry about ?

sir_mamiya · Jun 23, 2014

PKM-25 said:
+1!

Not only that, some of the work these young people do is far more artistic than the tightly wound up lens and film "tests" often found on this site. Before this era of photography took off, I would have never in a million years guessed the old guard would react the way they have.

Thank you. x1000

ntenny · Jun 23, 2014

Based on almost nothing at all, I don't think the film business as a whole is life-and-death dependent on the "hipster" crowd.[1] Lomography, sure, they're a cultural niche market and if shifting fashions destroy the niche they're in trouble. But I don't think Adox and Ilford are dependent on that niche; and sheet film, which is at least making enough money that people keep making the stuff, can't possibly be selling to casual users, can it?

Over-the-counter retail of film supplies is in trouble, which is a pain in the neck but I should think no surprise. (Hell, over-the-counter retail *everything* is in trouble.) But selling mainly online isn't an existential threat to the manufacturers, and it seems like a significant win in availability for those of us who don't live in major cities. Twenty years ago, how easy would it have been to get a box of 9x12 sheet film from some obscure manufacturer in the Czech Republic to Way Beyond Nowhere, Wyoming?

Tempest in a teapot, IMHO. And the article is just a couple of peels shy of an Onion in its level of navel-gazing.

-NT

[1] It's a term of contempt for a lot of people here, but I don't think that's universal. Among the actual younger folk with beards and tattoos and intentionally-obscure musical taste[2], it might be a little reductive but it doesn't seem to be fighting words.

[2] Some of that stuff is damn good, by the way. If you get a chance to see the terrifically named band ...And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead live, don't miss it.

AgX · Jun 23, 2014

"obscure" is not the right term when it is actually about the ignorance if the potential buyer in Way Beyond Nowhere, Wyoming.

Nuff · Jun 23, 2014

As someone who's interested in photography, all I can say that hipsters as they are called, make much more interesting photo subjects than a generic so called photographer would.

And like someone mentioned, some stuff coming out of the lomo cameras and hipsters is very creative.

Jessestr · Jun 23, 2014

pdeeh said:
There we go, exactly what I'm saying.

Pavlov could have made a case-study from APUG.

Another thread for the ignore button ...

Hahaha. That was funny.

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 23, 2014

I'm actually a fan of the Lomography phenomenon, though I know that not everyone here is, and I can't deny that analogue photography has many subcultures.

Clearly, though, there's a market that dictates that Lomography stuff is being sold in non-photographic places like Urban Outfitter, which is great for now, but isn't going to last, and places like that wouldn't be selling cameras, if they weren't moving a significant quantity of product by their standards, which I suspect are fairly high.

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 23, 2014

David A. Goldfarb said:
I'm actually a fan of the Lomography phenomenon, though I know that not everyone here is, and I can't deny that analogue photography has many subcultures.

Clearly, though, there's a market that dictates that Lomography stuff is being sold in non-photographic places like Urban Outfitter, which is great for now, but isn't going to last, and places like that wouldn't be selling cameras, if they weren't moving a significant quantity of product by their standards, which I suspect are fairly high.

Someone earlier in this thread claimed that one Urban Outfitter location (in CT) had already stopped carrying Lomo stuff. I've never been in one (in WA), so I don't know. I kicked around buying one of those Belairs just for fun, but then realized I could have a Sekonic L398A meter for less.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen one of those Lomo cameras shown on their website out in the wild. Probably due to my age group.

Ken

markaudacity · Jun 23, 2014

I think the sales numbers we've had shared with us show that trendy twentysomethings aren't driving film sales singlehandedly. Kodak reported a 15% increase in pro film sales last year, and I can assure you that most of these kids are not loading Portra 800 into their Holgas. They buy Lomo branded film, they buy expired stuff on eBay, or they buy whatever's cheapest. 9/10 times I ask someone with a Lomo camera or an AE1 what they have loaded, they can't even give me an answer.

Dave Wooten · Jun 24, 2014

The Lawrence Welk show re runs are still on the air. "Hipsters" and their beloved Lomos exhibit "discovery of photography" . Also, for some there is a " gee whiz" factor. The little plastic cameras have shown they can be a very creative tool, as can a paint brush and an aerosol spray can.

StoneNYC · Jun 24, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Someone earlier in this thread claimed that one Urban Outfitter location (in CT) had already stopped carrying Lomo stuff. I've never been in one (in WA), so I don't know. I kicked around buying one of those Belairs just for fun, but then realized I could have a Sekonic L398A meter for less.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen one of those Lomo cameras shown on their website out in the wild. Probably due to my age group.

Ken

That was me, yup I used to be able to buy impossible integral film, 110, 35mm and 120 film, as well as Lomography and Holga cameras in 35mm and 120 format as well as a short "movie" camera that shot a few seconds of frames from a 35mm film canister, odd right? lol

About a year ago I noticed stock dwindling and even the one in New York (urban outfitters), at least one of the locations, in Manhattan, had low stock and the sales lady said they were cutting back.

I stopped in the CT one 2 months ago and NO film at all but a few on the clearance peg board hooks.

All replaced by various record players and albums and tape decks and CD's so they are into the music scene of the hipster crowd now.

Cyclical.

StoneNYC · Jun 24, 2014

markaudacity said:
I think the sales numbers we've had shared with us show that trendy twentysomethings aren't driving film sales singlehandedly. Kodak reported a 15% increase in pro film sales last year, and I can assure you that most of these kids are not loading Portra 800 into their Holgas. They buy Lomo branded film, they buy expired stuff on eBay, or they buy whatever's cheapest. 9/10 times I ask someone with a Lomo camera or an AE1 what they have loaded, they can't even give me an answer.

The increase in pro film may be due to the decrease in available expired stock, yes there will always be "expired stock" but the last of the big chunks of older expired emulsions are sort of lessened and the remaining expired stock is from emulsions which are still being made.

That's just a guess of course, but I've noticed a trend on eBay and there's less of the old stock out there.

Xmas · Jun 24, 2014

Hi

I've a dedicated Lomo shop next to where I shoot on Sundays.

Open 11:00 till 19:00 local DST on Sunday, where I came from they padlocked playground swings on Sundays.

Pretty full range of cameras colours etc, film rack, mini lab (c41) and 'fine art' exhibit, not my style but not lomo either! eg FSU pano etc.

If they have free schedule on lab they will do a same day service- on Sunday.

(The local Sunday pharmacy also has 35mm film but no 120.)

They did not have a demo Russar yet!

Lomos are still in street use mainly trendies, though spotted an oldster with Lubitel I asked 'ebay?' 'no Lomo'!

darkosaric · Jun 24, 2014

Lomography had done many nice things in my opinion - I am waiting for couple of years and then I will buy some used nikon mount petzval, without them this would not be possible.
LC-A wide is also nice camera, not my thing, but for sure is nice, then reborn of russar, Belair camera... who knows, maybe they will even make good and cool looking instax wide camera.

EDIT: I see now Belair had instax wide back ... I want this

removed account4 · Jun 24, 2014

darkosaric said:
Lomography had done many nice things in my opinion - I am waiting for couple of years and then I will buy some used nikon mount petzval, without them this would not be possible.
LC-A wide is also nice camera, not my thing, but for sure is nice, then reborn of russar, Belair camera... who knows, maybe they will even make good and cool looking instax wide camera.

EDIT: I see now Belair had instax wide back ... I want this

i couldn't agree with you more about lomography.
they have done better "outreach" with photography
than a lot of camera / photography stores+companies ..
i don't mean showing up at trade shows but
they have made cameras, new lenses, FUN STUFF
and reintroduced photography to a whole sector of people because they are looking
for "fun" not ansel adams ... that regular camera companies may have tried but overlooked.
polaroid hit on this quite a bit with their wide instant cameras and their JOYCAM ...
the lomo stores seem to be packed with "stuff" and they give workshops
on the weekend. they had even asked me in their chicago store to
give a caffenol-demo on one weekend last year, which unfortunately
had to decline ( family obligations and air-fare/room-lodging ) ..
they are every bit on top of things as much as ilford and adox ( hopefully EK/KA )
( they used to or still advertise here on apug as well ).
and to think ( from what his chum/ pal/TA told me ) i used to serve him
coffee 20 years ago when he was designing the whole lomographic plan ...

====

the whole claiming "hipsters" are lomo's only target market
is like saying the only target market for LF cameras is old obsessive compulsive
white guys with beards which is as far away from the truth as it can be. there are
plenty of people who aren't old or white or men or have OCD who use LF ...

if you want to find out why they aren't selling in UA anymore, call lomo .
there is a phone number+email address on their website that goes to their office.
because i think has more to do with a distribution contract running out than "cool people" wanting to
buy records and 8-track tapes instead.

Xmas · Jun 24, 2014

The M/F ratio of lomos in London is less than one ie more girlies...

ditto Rollis and Yashica TLRs!

RB67 only two both fellas

4x5 MPP only one girl

4x5 monorail only one (two fellas operating one pro model... fash shoot)

AgX · Jun 24, 2014

You all speak of certain metropoles. So far I have only come across 1 person with a Lomo camera (Diana F).

miha · Jun 24, 2014

A neighbour of mine have a Lomo, a real one, other then that I have never seen any of the new Lomos in person, though a quick google search tells me we have a store selling Lomo cameras here in Ljubljana : http://www.lomography.com/magazine/...only-true-concept-store-in-ljubljana-slovenia

darkosaric · Jun 24, 2014

In Hamburg and in Warsaw I see relatively often people with plastic cameras. And yes - every second person is a girl. Recently I met a real Lomo fun: he has bunch of cameras (not only Lomo, also Plaubel Makina!), and has around 30.000 pictures on his Lomography profile! All taken with film.

StoneNYC · Jun 24, 2014

I use Lomo film in 110 but only because that's all there is!

Which also says it there, they are keeping while formats alive...

removed account4 · Jun 24, 2014

if you go to the UO website you will see they have +sell plenty lomo-stuff
and in the stores the diana is currently on sale ( along with film ).

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 24, 2014

Here's the link you were referring to before your changed your above post (#71) to address a completely different thought:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ken

removed account4 · Jun 24, 2014

yes ken

i couldn't find the guy who claimed he sold lomo's film to lomo so i changed
my post so i wouldn't have people claim i was FOS and making things up &c
so instead i CALLED lomo + urban outfitters and asked them
about the displays in the urban outfitters stores.
urban outfitters said they still had displays. i suggested others do this, but knowing they probably wouldn't
i did instead seeing it was also mentioned int this thread ...
diana cameras were on sale along with film ( locally ) and i went to the website ( before i called them )
and saw they had a bunch of lomograpic stuff on sale on the website, and lomo said uo was still a customer.
( holga and lomo are brands, and NOT the same company. same perspective, maybe, but not the same company. )

but i didn't realize there was an unwritten policy that after 11 years of being on apug, and being a former member of the membership council
that i had to have my post-edit's okayed with my personal parole officer before i changed the thrust of a post.
i didn't want to have trolls telling me that there was "no guy who claimed he sold lomo their film" and i was full of Cr@@p.
so instead i edit my post and you comment that i changed the focus of my post to address a completely different thought.

i am sorry to say this, but don't you have anything better to do than monitor my posts / post edits ?

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 24, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen one of those Lomo cameras shown on their website out in the wild. Probably due to my age group.

So there you have it. Apparently they do really exist around here.

Earlier this afternoon I was out running an errand, and lo and behold I saw a young lady with what looked to be a 120 Holga. No bright colors. It was black. On a strap around her neck, she was intently eyeing some old-town building facades. Holga is considered Lomo, right? She looked to be maybe in her early twenties. Real early. Was going to try chatting her up, but she was gone when I came back out of the store.

Don't know if she was a "hipster" or not. I really wouldn't know how to tell. And it doesn't matter anyway. She was consuming film.

How about that...

Ken

Brian C. Miller · Jun 25, 2014

David A. Goldfarb said:
Will they survive the end of the hipster? I hope so.

Thoughts?

Actually, the question is, will the hipster shops survive the end of the hipster? The hipster shops are catering to a trend, and that's it. (And the Guardian article is fluff.) Freestyle Photo has listed a lot of its Holga and other lo-fi cameras as closeouts.

Here's what I do know about me and my Holga: I have never seen anybody else using one of these, ever. I do know that I've run quite a few rolls through it. What do I feel when I use it? It's a camera, and I don't care about it. If it gets messed up, I don't care. If it gets stolen, I don't care. I'm happy with a lot of stuff from it, because it's like, "hey, the camera worked again!" I've put tape over the light leak holes, cardboard in it to provide friction for the supply roll, bent the clips on the side so they won't accidentally fly off the camera, and some tape over the red film window. And I just feed it cheap film.

But of course you don't need a Holga to do lo-fi. The other day I ran paper through almost all of my 4x5 holders trying to spot a light leak. (The lab was the light leak, and it was only on my contact prints. The camera and holders are fine.) What did I see? Some interesting stuff when I used expired paper. I exposed at something like EI 3, and developed for 30sec. Expired paper definitely doesn't react the same as fresh film! There's a few interesting images that I didn't expect.

The real question is, how many new photographers has the Holga and its ilk brought to film photography? That's one question that is hard to answer.

Film photography as fashion and the decline of the hipster

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