Film photography as fashion and the decline of the hipster

Ken Nadvornick

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Categorization is tacit admission that variety exists in the universe. Variety is the natural order of things. Without it, there would be no natural selection and we would all still be one-celled organisms slurping the primordial soup.

What I take issue with is people who follow the fad of insisting that everyone and everything in the world is exactly the same. Open your eyes. They are not.

The real problem lies with those who automatically link recognition of variety with discrimination against variety. If I am in a room and a person of differing ethnicity walks in, or differing religion, or differing political party, or differing haircut, I'm not such a dullard as to not notice their differences. Nor am I so ignorant as to be surprised that they do not look or think exactly as I (think) I do.

My only concern lies with the quality of their character. Good people exist in all varieties. So do bad people. Distinguishing between the two requires interacting with them. Not just looking at them. Or wishing them into being exactly like everyone else.

Did it ever occur to you that some "hipsters" (or any other variety of persons) might actually like being referred to as such? That they sense nothing pejorative in the reference? The idea here is to celebrate our diversity, not stick our heads into the sand and deny that it exists.

Just where the heck do you think random distribution bell curves come from?

Ken
 
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Ken Nadvornick

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David A. Goldfarb said:
Will they survive the end of the hipster? I hope so.
Click to expand...

Back to the topic...

Yes, I do worry a bit. Like everything else in our post-digital culture, things change and revolve much faster, including fads and trends. Noted in a different thread is the fact that the brand new technology which killed off the 100+ year old mass film market (dedicated digital P&Ss), are themselves already largely discarded on the scrap heap of history, supplanted by smartphone cameras.

Contrast that with my 1955-model Pacemaker Crown Graphic. If I decode the manufacturer's stamp underneath the focus rail crossbar, it tells me my sample was actually made in May, 1968. It also tells me that it's still an original model 'A' revision. That's 13-years without a single model change.

One thing I've learned is that if you find a product you really like, buy a lifetime supply of it right then and there. In six months it's be remaindered. In a year unobtainable.

So I do worry that "hipster-dom" may in fact wink out at any moment, thus removing a significant slice of whatever sort of post-digital mass market for film we do currently enjoy. I cannot single-handedly make up that slack.

Ken
 
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miha

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StoneNYC

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I've noticed that the only place in CT that sold Lomography and Holga and Polaroid/Imposisble film brands (Urban Outfitters) has stopped carrying all of it

This is another example that would lead the less knowledgeable to believe that film has "stopped being made".

Also, all those that might have used tbe cameras they got there, no longer know where to go to get film...

They don't know about B&H... Freestyle, etc.

So this does cause an ebb in the sales arena... And there's is a casual effect and link between us and them and both our supply.

I hope this gets resolved somehow.

"The futures not set... There's no fate but what we make for ourselves..."
 

PKM-25

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removed account4

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im with you pdeeh
too much us - them usually for divisive reasons.


Ken Nadvornick said:
Did it ever occur to you that some "hipsters" (or any other variety of persons) might actually like being referred to as such? That they sense nothing pejorative in the reference?
Click to expand...

it is a negative connotation. you don't need to look far, is the way it is used on THIS site a negative or positive ?
its like trying to put a positive spin on calling someone a " fashionista lomographer wannabee" or "jackasses with plastic cameras"
cause that is the way it is usually used, even on this site, and it is not nice.

and if you talk to people who like making and eating food who schmooze with celeb chefs / chefs they will tell you the same thing about the word "foodie", its a negative connotation.
(yes i know chefs, and people who are involved in the supermarket / celeb-chef / restaurant industries)
 

cliveh

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Ken Nadvornick

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jnanian said:
it is a negative connotation.
Click to expand...

To you, John. Not to me. And neither of us can judge for anyone else. We just got done with this, remember?

Just this last weekend I referred to a 55-something as an "aging hippy". The phrase was offered and received with a smile and a laugh, as a term of endearment.

When choosing up sides in pickup basketball I often heard the phrase, "I'll take the big white guy who can't jump" from players of all races. I'm 6' 6" and 230 lbs. I'm white. And I can't get my feet 6 inches off the damned court. I loved it. And always shot back to the person saying it "Next time I want THAT guy on defense..." There was a good-natured pounding to be paid for that good-natured remark.

It's a big world out there, John. Not everyone takes offense at everything.

Back to the topic...

What further thoughts do you have regarding David's observation?

In a globalized world young (and some not-so-young) people are desperate to differentiate themselves in any way they can (not realizing that they already are different, by definition). Lo-fi film photography was one way to do that when all they knew was clinically perfect boring digital photography.

But how long will that last before they are lured over to the more-shiny Next-Big-Thing? And then another Next-Big-Thing six months later? And what then happens to the rest of us with a longer-term interest in film?

Ken
 
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PKM-25

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Ken, do you listen to Beethoven when playing your computer's keyboard...?....vigorously?
 

Ken Nadvornick

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No, but I do listen Wagner sometimes in the darkroom...

:devil:

Ken
 

Chan Tran

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PKM-25 said:
Really......?

With all the amazing films we have at still amazing prices?
Click to expand...

To get my color negative films and or tranparency I have to order online. The nearest store to me is 40 miles and doesn't always have them in stock. There are only a few places around still do processing but a poor job. B&H won't ship me my RA-4 chemicals. And yes there is no PKM-25.
 

MattKing

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The local Lomography retailer that I'm most familiar with had for the longest time a sign above their Lomography display that read "No Photography Allowed".

They are more of a gift or souvenir store than anything else.

Glazer's in Seattle has a good approach. They have Holga and similar equipment in its own area - displayed in a manner similar to other specialty equipment and supplies. They also sponsor contests and otherwise promote to that portion of the market in a way that would be likely to draw customers into their store, where there are many other film based options.

I think people who are interested in Lomography and the like are extremely unlikely to ask users of roll film cameras the classic question "Can you still get film for that?"

The Large format users - they are on their own .
 

removed account4

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Ken Nadvornick said:
To you,.
Click to expand...

YAWN

maybe you should read some of the nice things people here on apug have to say about "hipsters"

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

--- whatever ...
 

Ken Nadvornick

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jnanian said:
YAWN...
Click to expand...

And about David's topic?

If the lo-fi film craze ends, there will likely be repercussions in the film marketplace.

What do you think about that?

Ken
 

PKM-25

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The closest photo store to me is 200 miles away over two 12,000 mountain passes, I have had an account with B&H for 18 years, I can choose labs in Denver for my color work or just use Bluemoon or Praus. We lost PKM-25 and KM-25 over a decade ago...

I'm a glass half full kinda guy, but to be fair, I shoot and print 90% black and white.

Ken Nadvornick said:
And about David's topic?

If the lo-fi film craze ends, there will likely be repercussions in the film marketplace.

What do you think about that?
Click to expand...

I think it is a fruitless excercise to even guess because a number of these folks will stick with film even if they no longer are part of a fad.

When we have something to worry about, then we will have something to worry about...
 
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StoneNYC

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Tell me you didn't get a shot of that sign in it's context...
 

MattKing

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StoneNYC said:
Tell me you didn't get a shot of that sign in it's context...
Click to expand...
I'm just not as much of a Rebel as you are Stone - no photograph, I am afraid.
 

George Papantoniou

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Sorry for the OT, but since film photographers fashion was mentioned, I think that this is what I prefer:

 

AgX

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Alan Klein said:
I'm retired now and when I was young to be called hip was, well, hip.
Click to expand...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdcHzquaMh8


Actually it was Apug where I came across the term Hipster. It was only last year that I first heard it being used in Germany.

I am still not quite sure what it means. I guess I myself am considered a nerd. Another of these terms...


EDIT: does Hippie come from being hip?
 

Alan Klein

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As I recall and it was long ago when I still had hair, "hip" came before hippie. I never wanted to be a hippie. They were conformists - with each other. But "hip", yes. Hip=cool, with it, not square, different, away from the maddening crowd, non-conformist, and certainly not like my parents! Now that I'm retired living in a 55+ retired community, I was asked how I like it. I told them it's like hanging out with your grandparents! Definitely not "hip".
 
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