Film Noir styled photography

OptiKen · Aug 27, 2015

I'm thinking of doing a Film Noir styled project and thought this is the best place to start.
Shooting in studio in both 35mm and medium format, Black and White.

What is a good film that will yield deep blacks and pearly whites or bright whites?
What (tank) developer would provide that film noir look?
And finally, (and maybe most importantly), what paper and developer?

Thanks in advance.

Ken

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 27, 2015

Actually I think it's the dramatic lighting and the implied and intentionally incomplete storytelling which requires the viewer to fill in the mysterious unknowns, more than the film, paper, and equipment.

Noir is more a state of mind than a recipe.

Ken

Malinku · Aug 27, 2015

Id recommend fuji acros 100. It has really good deep blacks and good whites. With acros it is an East film to develop and works well in most Developers
Id say lighting would play a bigger roll In this type of shooting. As i think of these style having really bright lighting jumping right into deep dark blacks. really any modern b&w film will do it If the lighting is set up for the effect.

btaylor · Aug 27, 2015

Painting With Light by John Alton. That's the lighting book by one of the classic noir cinematographers. The noir films were of course a specific style where the story/cinematic direction/photography all came together to create something quite different from earlier pre-war genres. You're going to get the look through the lighting, the film/paper materials are going to be secondary. Good luck!

analoguey · Aug 27, 2015

A while ago, I had opened a thread on the very same topic. Look it up. Has enough and more ideas.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Film noir 'look' - suitable film?

Arctic amateur · Aug 27, 2015

A good film? All of them.

pdeeh · Aug 27, 2015

lighting, not film

Xmas · Aug 27, 2015

pdeeh said:
lighting, not film

Only lighting, look at stills from the movie.

Gerald C Koch · Aug 27, 2015

Lighting and choice of subject.

frank · Aug 27, 2015

Heavy vignetting and a notable lack of mid tones.

bdial · Aug 27, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
Lighting and choice of subject.

This.

Any film, most any paper, but neutral or cold tone papers would probably work best to carry it off.

Possibly take a look at this guy's work; http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/1-jim-bremer.html

He is very influenced by Film Noir, one of the key factors he uses besides the lighting to play to that theme is the setting the cars are placed into. His work is more illustration than photography, but it's a good example of how to go about setting that mood.

nwilkins · Aug 27, 2015

you could start by using tri-X and pushing it to 1600 - you'll get dark shadow areas and bright highlights, which sounds like what you're looking for. If you need even more contrast you can agitate more than normal. This should also help to increase grain, which I am imagining is part of the look you want. I would also say HP5+ at 800 which I feel looks even grainier.

Steve Bellayr · Aug 27, 2015

Film Noir was more of a story than of lighting. The characters are all "dark" personalities or questionable moral character with murder and betrayal as important elements. Much of the story occurs at night. That is a very short explanation. The lighting in these films was adapted from the earlier German Expressionism films which heavily relied on Chiaroscuro, an art term for strong contrasts in light and dark. As I recall much of the film stock used at the time was slow. I would not think more than ISO 100, maybe even slower. Since the images that truly determine this effect were obtained in studio it was the lighting of the set that determined the final product. To obtain similar images today I wold recommend Tri-X and a Sonnar designed lens. But, overall (if the lens in not available) it will be your selection of how you light your subjects. There are many great paintings from the past that will provide you with light ideas.

AlexMalm01 · Aug 27, 2015

As others have already mentioned you will achieve a noir look more through lighting than anything else. Start by watching some of the classics like double indemnity, touch of evil, or even Chinatown. Don't be afraid to play with hard light, especially on male subjects, that's part of the style.

As for film stock I would maybe try pan f plus in something like rodinal. But there are many ways to skin a cat.

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OptiKen · Aug 27, 2015

I know that the biggest challenge and the biggest influence on the prints outcome is in the lighting. I am excited about the challenges it will present to me. It is also a way of, 'shooting outside of the box' to give me more experience and to broaden my horizons.

I love the look of the style but chose this project because it is really outside of my experiences. First of all, I don't shoot in a studio...and I don't shoot with artificial lighting.
I don't have that experience.
This is a teaching project for me to help me concentrate on lighting and it's effect on the ultimate print. It is also a lesson in story telling through photography as well as a lesson in using negative space to create contrast and balance. It is also meant to help me visualizing black and white in a color world.
My questions about film, developer, and paper are so that if I do capture what I am looking for, I want that to be translated correctly to the piece of paper that I hang on the wall.
Who knows? If I am successful in translating my visions (the exercise is also to help increase the scope of my visions - spark creativity), the project might even turn into a coffee table book.

For my coffee table.

AlexMalm01 · Aug 27, 2015

Ok, well if it were me i would test some of the traditional grain films like pan f, fp4, hp5. I would skip tri-x since it has been updated. As for developer maybe non-solvent like rodinal? And i have no idea which paper i would use, but probably neutral or cool multigrade.

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Doc W · Aug 27, 2015

btaylor said:
Painting With Light by John Alton. That's the lighting book by one of the classic noir cinematographers. The noir films were of course a specific style where the story/cinematic direction/photography all came together to create something quite different from earlier pre-war genres. You're going to get the look through the lighting, the film/paper materials are going to be secondary. Good luck!

+1 on that. John Alton was the master of noir lighting. As others have said, it is more a question of the lighting than anything else and lighting was used in an expressionistic way to portray dark themes and dark characters. The visual style itself was the result of faster film, coated lenses and more portable lighting all of which became available in the late 1930s. Alton and others used small, portable lights, called "dinkie inkies" to create very subtle lighting effects that explored extreme chiaroscuro.

Definitely read Alton's book. Look him up on IMDB and see what he was doing in the late 40s and early l50s.

Mike Crawford · Aug 27, 2015

Steve Bellayr said:
Film Noir was more of a story than of lighting. The characters are all "dark" personalities or questionable moral character with murder and betrayal as important elements. Much of the story occurs at night. That is a very short explanation. The lighting in these films was adapted from the earlier German Expressionism films which heavily relied on Chiaroscuro, an art term for strong contrasts in light and dark. As I recall much of the film stock used at the time was slow. I would not think more than ISO 100, maybe even slower. Since the images that truly determine this effect were obtained in studio it was the lighting of the set that determined the final product. To obtain similar images today I wold recommend Tri-X and a Sonnar designed lens. But, overall (if the lens in not available) it will be your selection of how you light your subjects. There are many great paintings from the past that will provide you with light ideas.

Best answer ever on 'Film Noir' type questions. To the OP, it's not about the materials you can use to create a mood, effect or style because they were/are never achieved purely by the materials. It's all about lighting, exposure, staging and importantly framing, (look at the tilts in Citizen Kane), and of course the directors shooting such films would then rely on the skills of their lighting cameramen to achieve the desired look. BUT.....as Steve points out, it's about the story and the characters involved. Do research Expressionism, especially German Expressionist films, as again as Steve mentions, a lot of Noir came from there. (Hollywood had a a huge amount of Jewish talent coming from Germany in the mid/late 30s escaping the rise of Nazism and they ended up influencing the genre of Noir.) Look at paintings too for lighting and composition. Caravaggio was pretty Noir!

Mike Crawford · Aug 27, 2015

PS.
I am assuming you've seen lots of Film Noir films? If not, indulge yourself or you will never get the look. Lots of top ten lists on line. For me, The Third Man (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihlku1aKpRg) always wins with Fritz Lang's 'M' coming not far behind, but lots of lesser known classics to see. The DVD I have of The Third Man has a great commentary on the extras which explains some of the lighting choices. Though I can often be persuaded by a lot of earlier Humphrey Bogart gangster films in black and white.

Just seen there's a new, even more restored version of The Third Man around. Wow! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aoK3cO3eFA

pbromaghin · Aug 27, 2015

Smoke. You have to photograph people smoking. Camels or Luckys. No filter allowed.

Xmas · Aug 28, 2015

You need a model and a street light in a dark background maybe a tripod and reflector maybe rain on cobbles
Or a studio with one spot and lots of dark backdrops.

The third man and Citizen Kane were normal cine film, class photographers and directors.

You may need to use digital or instant film first to set up the lighting positions.

markbarendt · Aug 28, 2015

OptiKen said:
I'm thinking of doing a Film Noir styled project and thought this is the best place to start.
Shooting in studio in both 35mm and medium format, Black and White.

OptiKen said:
First of all, I don't shoot in a studio...and I don't shoot with artificial lighting.
I don't have that experience.

Ok, so it looks like you don't do studio work now, but with this project you want to learn how, you want to use both 35mm and MF, and you want to do low-key work.

With regard to the film then I'd choose a slow one. One of the big struggles in low key work is ambient light's effect on the background. Another big factor is shutter speed given the medium format requirement and the distinct possibility of using strobes.

Slower films will give you more options when it comes to camera settings that will keep the background black and shutter sync speeds for flash in range.

Ilford Pan F comes to mind as a nice fit. Any of the films in the 100-125 range should be very workable.

I'd avoid faster films unless you go to the field.

Film Noir styled photography

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