Film MM choice: Kowa Six or Bronica s2a?

[Eric_Music]

(I hope I can ask this kind of question here)

Hi everyone, I am looking for my first medium format camera and I inclined to 6x6 and I have encountered 2 offers,

1. Kowa Six full kit (Grip+50mm+85mm+150mm+accessories)
2. Bronica s2a with Nikkor 75mm

The prices are similar and that's why I need some suggestions from more experienced people like you guys!

I did some research and know that the Kowa's shutter jam/struck problem is quite common but luckily the one that I have encountered is in very good shape and is offered by a photographier who seem have taken a great care of it.

Although the Bronica offers lesser accessories, but it has changeable back and it seems it does not have those major issues like the Kowa Six.

So now I am stuck and don't know how to choose. Kowa seems a better deal (by comparing the price on ebay) but I am concerning about its durability as this camera is not very popular on the market and I am afraid I cannot find parts (and a professional technician on Kowa) for repair if anything goes wrong.

The Bronica's offer is just a fair deal, but it seems it has a better reputation in the medium format field.

I am a hobbyist and I shoot everything, from Art to Portrait to Landscape and I have already got a Sekonic L-358 meter and I am looking for long-term use.

Which one do you guys recommend and why? Thanks in advance

Eric

 

[davela]

I own a Kowa Six. The lenses are good quality optically, but a little hard to find except the 85/2.8. The bodies do sometimes jam up - I've lost one that way. The Bronica system has more lens choices at reasonable prices. I've heard that older Bronica bodies also have reliability issues. My experience has been that medium format SLR system cameras are not as reliable as 35mm SLRs, and that includes the pricey Hassleblads. However, I will say that most camera techs are used to, and comfortable repairing these cameras.

 

[Eric_Music]

Thanks for your reply! The Kowa Six comes with 3 lens plus accessories. In this case, do you think I should go for the Kowa?

 

[campy51]

I have a Kowa Six and a Bronica EC-TL and they are both easy to focus with. The viewfinders are bright and the Kowa Six with the grip and prism finder is easy to handle. The Bronica is heavier and more awkward to hold. I don't use either one much due to having 5 medium format cameras but depending on the prices of both I might go with the Kowa since it has the lenses. Keep in mind though the Kowa lenses have built in shutters so if there is a problem fixing or replacing them is more expensive than Bronica.

 

[reddesert]

Another question is what type of photography you intend to do. For example, the Kowa has leaf shutter lenses while the Bronica has a focal plane shutter with a slow sync speed. So if you were going to do a lot of flash photography with control of ambient light, or ambient light with flash fill, then you might want the leaf shutters, but if you never use flash then it doesn't matter that much. On the other side, because the Bronica S2 lenses don't have shutters (or a focusing helical), they are pretty inexpensive to acquire more lenses, depending on your local supply.

 

[moto-uno]

Have 3 Kowa's and had an S2 Bronica . The most trouble free Kowa I have is the older model Six without removable back . They are still serviced by Ross Yerkes in California .
The earlier Bronica ( any S model ) have fewer service choices . The winding gears on the S2A are superior to the S2 ( neither are brass) . The Kowa lenses supplied certainly cover the
majority of most peoples needs . Check Ebay for Bronica lenses , I don't believe they are much cheaper . The Bronica will raise the dead , Kowa , not nearly as loud . They both
take great pics . The Bronica's frequently suffer from missed focus , not too hard to fix yourself , lotsa info online about replacing mirror foam etc . They're both fun too ! Peter

 

[outwest]

Have had a Kowa 6 and a Kowa 6MM and still have a Super 66. The Kowa lenses are very nice and that 3 lens set would serve you well. Be kind to the wind on the 6 and it be fine. I had a Bronica S2a and it went away in a short time. There was play in the helical focus and with the crash/bang of shutter release mirror slap I would get image doubling on every shot. If I put my full weight on holding the camera and lens together it would almost work but it was not worth the effort. I'll second Ross Yerkes for any problem.

 

[Paul Howell]

I have a 6 and super 66 with 5 lens and a spare back for the super. I bought my 6 and 3 lens used in the late 70s from a wedding photographer and later added the super 66. My intention at the time was to upgrade to a Rollie, was quite happy with the results. The lens are quite good, the breech lock mount is somewhat finicky, the film advance is prone to jamming if used too aggressively. I like the path the film takes not as torturous as in a Hassy type back. Problems are that there are only or few repair shops that will work on Kowas, parts are hard to come by. Ross Yerkes is one of the best has reputation for being racist and anti-Semitic includes flyers with cameras he has worked on. His prices are quite reasonable and he has some parts. I would consider buying a beater body for parts.

 

[Alex Varas]

I have done repairs in Kowa Super 66 for both body and lenses and yes, be gentle with the winding. Lenses are very good, the 85/2 I like it a lot. I never tried the wide one.

 

[lecarp]

Having used both, the Bronica is much better balanced in the hand. The nikkon lenses produce a lovely rendering.

 

[Eric_Music]

You guys are all amazing people!! Thanks so much!

 

[outwest]

Interesting comment, lecarp, I often prefer using my Kowa over my Hasselblad because of the way it sits in my hand. I guess Eric just has to get both and try them. On the other hand, being able to be happy without extra lenses, I just take the Rolleiflex;-)

 

[btaylor]

My Kowa Six was the best handling MF slr I have ever used- like an extension of my arm with the anatomical grip (if you get the Kowa get the grip!). Loved it. Had a couple of 66 as well but they were not as balanced or compact as the Six. Never used the old S2a Bronicas, only the later GS-1, but that’s a modern camera. Yerkes can fix the Kowa- but be prepared at some point to service the leaf shutters. I like the idea of buying both and choosing your favorite!

 

[Eric_Music]

I am now also taking the Mamiya C220 into my consideration, what do you guys think?
Pros: Interchangeable lenses, a little bit "newer" than both the Kowa and s2a, fully mechanical, popular on the market (easier for parts)

 

[Paul Howell]

I think the C220 is an underrated camera, lighter than the C330, many of the same feature, takes the same lens set, Mamiya glass is very good, other systems. I find a TLR easy to hand hold, in the distant past I had a C33 with a couple of lens, took really good images, I traded it in on Mamiya Universal with 100mm lens. Other systems to think about, as noted Mamiya Press, or 645, Graphic or Busch min press with graflock back and 21/4 by 3/14 (6X9) back. Of all my MF systems I tend to use the Mamiya Press (Universal) the most. The Kowa is lighter, but the Mamiya press has a larger negative, nice range of lens, but as hinted at very heavy. My current project to convert a mini Speed with standard spring back to a view camera, looking for a 90mm that will cover movements.

 

[Joseph Bell]

I have the Bronica s2 with Nikon 75mm. The lens offers a lovely blend of fidelity and character - very pleasant rendering, as mentioned above. I understand you'll be looking at the s2a, which might have some different specs, but my s2 annoys me in two serious ways: 1) the viewfinder is quite dim and low in contrast and very difficult to see in lower light, and 2) the camera is demonically heavy! I do love the look of the camera - it has a certain clunky elegance. The price is right, and the negatives will look terrific!

 

[davela]

I am now also taking the Mamiya C220 into my consideration, what do you guys think?
Pros: Interchangeable lenses, a little bit "newer" than both the Kowa and s2a, fully mechanical, popular on the market (easier for parts)

The Mamiya C TLR system is probably the most practical of affordable medium format interchangeable lens system around, but I did not mention that at first since you expressed interest in a medium format SLR. Prices are going up though!

Vintage Hasselblad is the other such system with easy availability of all common components, but it's not affordable for most of us (that's a recent trend mostly - Hasselblad gear is headed to the realm of well healed collectors now).

 

[Eric_Music]

I think the C220 is an underrated camera, lighter than the C330, many of the same feature, takes the same lens set, Mamiya glass is very good, other systems. I find a TLR easy to hand hold, in the distant past I had a C33 with a couple of lens, took really good images, I traded it in on Mamiya Universal with 100mm lens. Other systems to think about, as noted Mamiya Press, or 645, Graphic or Busch min press with graflock back and 21/4 by 3/14 (6X9) back. Of all my MF systems I tend to use the Mamiya Press (Universal) the most. The Kowa is lighter, but the Mamiya press has a larger negative, nice range of lens, but as hinted at very heavy. My current project to convert a mini Speed with standard spring back to a view camera, looking for a 90mm that will cover movements.

I have looked up the Mamiya Press, and the price are very appealing. Could you tell us more about why you prefer this camera over the others? I can change the format size at the film back, am I correct?

 

[ruilourosa]

mamiya press is a very good camera with very good lenses, specially the 50mm, the 75mm, the 100mm 2.8 and the 250mm

the 100mm 2.8 is one of my favorite lenses...

Older bronicas (not the etr, sq, and gs series) fail mechanically and usually cannot be repaired i had one body that did... kowas i really don´t know

 

[Paul Howell]

I like the 6X9 negative, a 1/3rd larger than a 6X6, about the same proportions as a 35mm, I also have a 6X7 back that enlarges to an 8X10 with a crop. When shooting 6X6 and cropping to 8X10 you are really using 6X4.5 of the negative. Although expensive if you find one with the masks Mamiya made a muilt back, 6X9, 6X6 and 6X4.5. The lens are on the slower side but for landscapes not an issue and I generally shoot in the sweet spot F 11 to 16. It's a rangefinder and some folks don't like a rangefinder. I have a couple of Universals and a first generation Press. The Universals have parallax correction, built in viewfinders for 100, 150 and 250 while you need auxiliary finders for the wide's which need to adjusted for parallax. Downside is that you need a 2/14 by 31/4 enlarger while a C220, Kowa or Bronica only need a 6X6 size. If you scan not an issue. The manuals can be found on line, no matter what you decide find the manual and read it carefully before you pull the trigger.

 

[moto-uno]

 

[moto-uno]

^ This is why you want a Kowa camera . Regards , Peter