Film Index with Push/Pull recommendations

[henryyjjames]

Hi All,
I feel like I saw a list of film stock at one point with information and data about pushing and pulling each type, but I can't remember where I saw it—or if I just imagined this existing. Does anyone know where this might be? If it doesn't exist, then I'll have to start one .

Thanks,
Henry

 

[Rudeofus]

Do you mean the "massive dev chart" ?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Apart from the massive dev chart, the Xtol datasheet is what you describe, but obviously for a single developer.

 

[aparat]

I think that going to Kodak's (like @Anon Ymous suggests) and Ilford's documentation, is your best option, unless you're willing to do your own testing. I will quote Henry (1988), who said this regarding your question:

"I wish I could give you exact answers as to what these terms mean in a quantitative way (...) but this is impossible simply because the time adjustments required vary between films, developers, and various authors." (p. 155). He said that after a thorough review of some of the work on the subject, pointing out their similarities and differences.

I ran a calculation just now, and, if you wanted to be reasonably thorough, for one film, one developer, one development procedure combination, you are talking upwards of 2280 different options, and that's without taking into account any arbitrary factors, such as those by Adams:

"Normal development is an arbitrary value depending on (a) personal concepts of values, (b) transmission factors of the lens and shutter, (c) character of the negative diffuse or condenser (collimated) light, (d) character of the developer, (e) method of printing, (f) type of printing paper to be used, - photography is a fluid procedure, not a rigid and mechanically limited craft."

You could reduce that number a bit, by limiting the subject luminance range and the range of film contrast you are most interested in, but, even then, this would be a huge number.

The most sensible, simplest approach I've found is the "15/50" model by Hicks and Schultz (1997). It bypasses most of the theory and gives one a very manageable model to work with. You can argue that it's not accurate, and perhaps it's not, but it is very easy to implement by anyone.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Massive Dev Chart Film Development, Film Developing Database

www.digitaltruth.com

Or, mix up a Rodinal 1:100 solution, pour it in the tank and let it stand for an hour — short easy agitation at the start, and a shorter gentler agitation 30 minutes in. After a lifetime sweating dilutions and agitation and times and temperatures, I have come to appreciate the simplicity of stand development.

 

[aparat]

Massive Dev Chart Film Development, Film Developing Database

www.digitaltruth.com

Or, mix up a Rodinal 1:100 solution, pour it in the tank and let it stand for an hour — short easy agitation at the start, and a shorter gentler agitation 30 minutes in. After a lifetime sweating dilutions and agitation and times and temperatures, I have come to appreciate the simplicity of stand development.

Good point! I sometimes do that too, and more often now than at any time in the past. Sometimes, we chase unattainable goals, instead of focusing on simple methods that just work, esp. for roll-film, with a mix of different lighting conditions and exposures.

 

[mshchem]

Kodak documented everything with XTOL, look here

Kodak Technical Documents • 125px

XTOL, USE THE FORCE!

 

[Maris]

I used to do push and pull development of film but not for the last couple of decades or the last few thousand negatives.

Now I do push and pull effects by changing the grade of my variable contrast printing paper.
Starting with a fully exposed and fully developed negative going up a paper grade or two is the same as a push. Down a grade or two is a pull. And the negative stays versatile for various print strategies without being too contrasty or too flat.

When the light level gets low and I'm running out of film speed I resist the temptation to do push development. I'll reach for the fastest film, fastest lens, and steadiest tripod. Please, anything but underexposure.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

When the light level gets low and I'm running out of film speed I resist the temptation to do push development. I'll reach for the fastest film, fastest lens, and steadiest tripod. Please, anything but underexposure.

Truer words, never spoken. B+W film needs light. Skimp on light, lose the shadows.

 

[otto.f]

I don’t know about a site that deals specifically with just push and pull. But apart from the Massive Development Chart there’s this site with pictures of the results, which gives some indication.

FilmDev | All FilmDev Recipes

Develop your own black and white film then link the results to your photos on Flickr

filmdev.org

 

[snusmumriken]

The most sensible, simplest approach I've found is the "15/50" model by Hicks and Schultz (1997). It bypasses most of the theory and gives one a very manageable model to work with. You can argue that it's not accurate, and perhaps it's not, but it is very easy to implement by anyone.

That’s tantalising. Where can we find this Hicks and Schulz model?

 

[aparat]

That’s tantalising. Where can we find this Hicks and Schulz model?

It is from "The Black And White Handbook: The Ultimate Guide To Monochrome Techniques" by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz (David and Charles, 1997). It's a very sensible textbook for people interested in analog B&W photography. One of the things I like about it is the fact that it takes a common sense approach to a lot of otherwise complex concepts, including N-development. I believe Roger Hicks was a member and contributor at APUG.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

It is from "The Black And White Handbook: The Ultimate Guide To Monochrome Techniques" by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz (David and Charles, 1997). It's a very sensible textbook for people interested in analog B&W photography. One of the things I like about it is the fact that it takes a common sense approach to a lot of otherwise complex concepts, including N-development. I believe Roger Hicks was a member and contributor at APUG.

Roger was an active contributor over on the Rangefinder Forum, and a lot of his accumulated knowledge is archived there. He had a deep love and knowledge of black and white film photography — a good man.

 

[snusmumriken]

It is from "The Black And White Handbook: The Ultimate Guide To Monochrome Techniques" by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz (David and Charles, 1997). It's a very sensible textbook for people interested in analog B&W photography. One of the things I like about it is the fact that it takes a common sense approach to a lot of otherwise complex concepts, including N-development. I believe Roger Hicks was a member and contributor at APUG.

Thank you!