FILM IN THE FREEZER

Hi,
Just got a new freezer with the intention to freeze a mass of B&W film including Kodak HIE.
I intend to wrap each roll individually in cling film then bag up in tens.
Does this sound OK and how long should they last?

Cheers JON.

Normally, that would be fine and you really don't have to do all the wrapping for pan films, just freeze in the box or plastic canister.

I *think* you may be misleading yourself with HIE. IIRC, this film doesn't last as long, even frozen, than pan films. You may be storing something that goes bad anyway.

I doubt the HIE will last unless you've got a -80.

Wasn't there already a thread about long-term storage options for HIE?

JON@jb-ci said:

Hi,
Just got a new freezer with the intention to freeze a mass of B&W film including Kodak HIE.
I intend to wrap each roll individually in cling film then bag up in tens.
Does this sound OK and how long should they last?
Cheers JON.

Click to expand...

Hi Jon,
Don't use cling film as it will lose its clingy-ness after a short time in the cold.

Double bag them using zip lock bags. This is what I have done with my HIE rolls. I bagged say 2 per small zip lock bag, then into a larger zip-lock bag, I placed about 4 or 5 of the smaller bags of two.

BTW when you wrote "wrap each roll individually" I HOPE for HIE you meant "wrap each canister individually" !! DO NOT OPEN the HIE canisters until you are ready to use the HIE - and then in total darkness. In fact the same goes for any 35mm film canisters (wrt exposure to the atmosphere not light) as the seal should be fine for offering a layer of protection and the canister most likely already contains an inert gas anyway (assuming it has never been opened after leaving the factory).

Contrary to other replies you received in this thread, I have been unable to find any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that HIE won't last at least 10-15 years when frozen. In fact I remember reading once that somebody had success thawing a roll that was frozen for about 10 years (IIRC).

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)the latest thread I remember contributing to on this very same topic.

regards
Peter

Like Peter, I use Zip Lock baggies. Sometimes i even throw in a desiccant pack.
They all go into the freezer that way and my film is happy there.

PeterB said:

Contrary to other replies you received in this thread, I have been unable to find any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that HIE won't last at least 10-15 years when frozen. In fact I remember reading once that somebody had success thawing a roll that was frozen for about 10 years (IIRC).

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)the latest thread I remember contributing to on this very same topic.

regards
Peter

Click to expand...

Hi Peter,

I too am surprised about these comments: from my own experience: I have used HIE film (re spooled from a big roll by Rolland Elliot), frozen for about 6 years, used last summer without any problem. That said: 35mm rolls form the very first MACO run (have to look that one up, I guess about 7 years ago) did loose their IR sensitivity after about 3-4 years, even when kept frozen at -20degC

Luckily I haven't seen this phenomena with my frozen stock of 4*5 inch MACO
IR film, but these sheets are younger than the mentioned prototype 35mm film


Best,

Cor

Cor said:

Hi Peter,

I too am surprised about these comments: from my own experience: I have used HIE film (re spooled from a big roll by Rolland Elliot), frozen for about 6 years, used last summer without any problem. That said: 35mm rolls form the very first MACO run (have to look that one up, I guess about 7 years ago) did loose their IR sensitivity after about 3-4 years, even when kept frozen at -20degC

Luckily I haven't seen this phenomena with my frozen stock of 4*5 inch MACO
IR film, but these sheets are younger than the mentioned prototype 35mm film


Best,

Cor

Click to expand...

Hi Cor,

The dye used by MACO film is different to that used by Kodak's HIE, so it would be an unfair comparison if we attempt to assume the same for HIE.

Secondly, the younger MACO film may be a better product than the one you experienced problems with. As MACO hasn't had as much time or resources as Kodak to improve the quality of their formulations.

regards
Peter

PeterB said:

Hi Cor,

The dye used by MACO film is different to that used by Kodak's HIE, so it would be an unfair comparison if we attempt to assume the same for HIE.

Secondly, the younger MACO film may be a better product than the one you experienced problems with. As MACO hasn't had as much time or resources as Kodak to improve the quality of their formulations.

regards
Peter

Click to expand...

Peter,

I was not comparing both dyes, AFAIK was the MACO film made by EFKE, they used "normal" pan film (100 asa) and "doped" it with an IR sensitive dye, so that's why it needs heavier filtering that HIE resulting in very low speed.

HIE was a emulsion sepcialy designed to register IR light.

I also mentioned that I did not have problems with younger emulsion runs of MACO (in 4*5) format.

Nowadays MACO does not offer IR film by EFKE anymore, EFKE is marketing it by itself (oa through Freestyle),

Best,

Cor

Cor said:

... AFAIK was the MACO film made by EFKE, they used "normal" pan film (100 asa) and "doped" it with an IR sensitive dye, so that's why it needs heavier filtering that HIE resulting in very low speed.

Click to expand...

That the MACO IR 820c was a "normal" emulsion doped with a IR sensitiser may be correct, but I don't think the conclusion necessarily follows. HIE has a lot more "deep IR" sensitivity, making IR a larger proportion of the light registering on the film. A "near IR" film like the MACO will need heavier filtering and give less (relative) sensitivity due to a different sensitising dye.

Ole said:

That the MACO IR 820c was a "normal" emulsion doped with a IR sensitiser may be correct, but I don't think the conclusion necessarily follows. HIE has a lot more "deep IR" sensitivity, making IR a larger proportion of the light registering on the film. A "near IR" film like the MACO will need heavier filtering and give less (relative) sensitivity due to a different sensitising dye.

Click to expand...

Hi Ole,

If you look at the spectral sensitive curve of HIE at: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f13/f002_0333ac.gif

You'll see an peculiar curve (apart from a high UV sensitivity), it gets a dip around blue, rises through green to red, and drops of at say 880 nm. I could not find the curve of EFKE IR, but I seem to recall a more or less normal pan response, and a little tail into near IR upto 700 or so. So you need an heavy cut back on the visible part to be able to get an IR effect (this is more so for the new IR film of MACO, but at least you are than left with a "fast" speed of around 4 asa opposed to the 1-1.5 with efke...

Anyway, we are saying the same thing anyway I guess..

Best,

Cor

yes, we are essentially saying the same thing.

HIE seems to be a fast emulsion (horrendous grain) which is only sensitised to red and IR; the blue/UV is the native silver halide sensitivity. MACO IR is a panchromatic film with extended IR sensitivity.

BTW the Rollei IR 820/400 works fine with a 695 IR filter, and is fast enough with that to allow hand-held shooting. I tried it in a Bessa-L with 21mm Color-Skopar and a Heliopan filter; setting the speed dial to 200 gave good results measuring through the filter. It ended up at something like EI 20.

Ole said:

yes, we are essentially saying the same thing.

HIE seems to be a fast emulsion (horrendous grain)

Click to expand...

..excellent for Lith printing though..

Ole said:

BTW the Rollei IR 820/400 works fine with a 695 IR filter, and is fast enough with that to allow hand-held shooting. I tried it in a Bessa-L with 21mm Color-Skopar and a Heliopan filter; setting the speed dial to 200 gave good results measuring through the filter. It ended up at something like EI 20.

Click to expand...

..interesting: to get a decent IR effect I had to use a 89c filter, at 8 asa..

Best,


Cor

Cor,

The sensitivity curve for Rollei IR 820/400 is here.

I went for a Heliopan 695 filter since I wanted to keep as much of the IR sensitivity as possible while filtering out as much as possible of the visible light. A 720nm filter is better for blocking visible light, but cuts into the shorter bit of the IR.