Film holders - new or used

Alan Gales · May 7, 2016

Ai Print said:
I have a question...

I understand why some can't see or understand buying film holders new for themselves, but can they understand why someone else might buy new?

I keep wanting to call you Al. Without my glasses Ai Print looks like Al Print. I know. My fault.

Reread post #12. I've always bought used holders myself but I know my friend Stone had some problems with light leaks from some leaky 8x10 holders. Like he says, leaky holders can cost you money.

I've done well with used holders but I don't fault anyone for buying new ones. Besides, someone has to buy new holders or they will quit making them

removed account4 · May 8, 2016

Alan Gales said:
Reread post #12. I've always bought used holders myself but I know my friend had some problems with light leaks from some leaky 8x10 holders. Like he says, leaky holders can cost you money.

sorry to read your friend had trouble: did your friend test the holders or use them cold ?
i can't imagine doing something imporant with untested gear, even with NEW holders
especially since the price of 8x10 film is ... expensive.
IDK, i've been doing profesisonal work for just about 30 years and don't leave leave much to chance
when it's important i always make multiple exposures ( you never know ),
8x10, no way i'd use anything cold / untested ... i guess others wing-it a bit more than me, ..
i fire shutters a handful of times before i expose, i go through all my holders before i load
with film and make sure everything works ... otherwise, what's the point of wasting film and time and effort.
to me at least, testing holders is up there like getting used cameras/lenses &c CLA'd or USING THE GEAR
ahead of a job and sending armloads of film to a lab or testing a new film ( or developer )
before using for anything important.

YMMV

Alan Gales · May 8, 2016

jnanian said:
sorry to read your friend had trouble: did your friend test the holders or use them cold ?
i can't imagine doing something imporant with untested gear, even with NEW holders
especially since the price of 8x10 film is ... expensive.
IDK, i've been doing profesisonal work for just about 30 years and don't leave leave much to chance
when it's important i always make multiple exposures ( you never know ),
8x10, no way i'd use anything cold / untested ... i guess others wing-it a bit more than me, ..
i fire shutters a handful of times before i expose, i go through all my holders before i load
with film and make sure everything works ... otherwise, what's the point of wasting film and time and effort.
to me at least, testing holders is up there like getting used cameras/lenses &c CLA'd or USING THE GEAR
ahead of a job and sending armloads of film to a lab or testing a new film ( or developer )
before using for anything important.

YMMV

He had just gotten into 8x10 and picked up some holders right before a trip and had no time to test them first. Also, sometimes they leaked and sometimes they didn't. A PITA. Just one of those things but enough to leave him with a bad taste in his mouth for used film holders. I can understand it.

Jim Noel · May 8, 2016

Michael Stubbs said:
Hello,

Now that I've ordered a 5x4 camera, I'm looking at obtaining some film holders.

I can get hold of brand new Toyo packs of two for sixty quid per pack or thereabouts, but I've also found a studio in the UK selling off old Toyo film holders for £15 each. They describe them as good condition but well worn.

Would you guys advise stumping up for new?

I was briefly in possession of an old MPP which came with film holders, and they the dark slides were rather difficult to slide and that put me off used dark slides. These used ones are half the price of new, though...

I have been buying, using and selling holders since 1938. The only time I ever got new ones was an occasion when the seller didn't know what he had. I like the older ones much better than the new plastic ones. On the rare occasion whenone leaks light, I either fix it , or dispose of it. Probably less than 20 such occasions over all of these years.

StoneNYC · May 8, 2016

Alan Gales said:
He had just gotten into 8x10 and picked up some holders right before a trip and had no time to test them first. Also, sometimes they leaked and sometimes they didn't. A PITA. Just one of those things but enough to leave him with a bad taste in his mouth for used film holders. I can understand it.

Pretty much what happened.

Plus testing in general with 8x10 is a lot more involved than 4x5, more hours processing. Etc. 11x14 and up is even worse.

And someone said it above, the tolerances with 8x10+ are different.

But now at least the OP has some things to think about. If it's any consolation, the holders new are still less than a single box of color film. Well worth the price in any size. To me. Anyway, be well guys.

removed account4 · May 8, 2016

Alan Gales said:
He had just gotten into 8x10 and picked up some holders right before a trip and had no time to test them first. Also, sometimes they leaked and sometimes they didn't. A PITA. Just one of those things but enough to leave him with a bad taste in his mouth for used film holders. I can understand it.

yeah, i can understand that too, new camera, eager to use it ... !
and then the bummer of intermittent leaks ..
oh well, at least now your friend doesn't have to worry about leaks, chamoinix holders are nice (from what i hear)
and the dealer is great to deal with. sounds like if your friend had the $$ it was a win-win situation to me.

(still if it was me ...), i wouldn't buy new, never have ( and don't plan on it ).
as mentioned earlier in this thread, i've got 100+ holders -- stacks of 4x5 ( wood, metal, graphic ( slotted )
modern, armload of 5x7 & 8x10 ( wood and plastic ), 7x11 (wood) and 11x14 (i think only plastic )too,
as well as magazines that take multiple sheets at once ( grafmatics + bag magazines for 4x5 )
and i took very little time and effort to put paper in them, develop the paper
and look for stray light. in case the OP reads other places on the web &c that it is extremely difficult to test holders,
its not, it's just as simple with 4x5 as other formats ... not rocket science.
if you buy new or used holders, its a good thing to do with ALL of them, sometimes NEW holders leak too.
it gives piece of mind the holders are light tight.

YMMV

Michael Stubbs · May 19, 2016

Oops the system didn't email me to say that anyone had responded after the first one. Sorry for not chiming back in sooner!

Thanks for all the responses.

Chamonix make film holders new, but are currently out of stock. Toyo still make them and they are relatively widely available. Two for about £60.

Michael Stubbs · May 19, 2016

I would prefer new, but the fact I could save 50% is pause for thought... I am slightly more inclined towards just going for new, I think. Anyway, thanks for all the replies.

StoneNYC · May 19, 2016

Michael Stubbs said:
Oops the system didn't email me to say that anyone had responded after the first one. Sorry for not chiming back in sooner!

Thanks for all the responses.

Chamonix make film holders new, but are currently out of stock. Toyo still make them and they are relatively widely available. Two for about £60.

I don't think all holders are out of stock, perhaps a certain size yes.

removed account4 · May 19, 2016

Michael Stubbs said:
I would prefer new, but the fact I could save 50% is pause for thought... I am slightly more inclined towards just going for new, I think. Anyway, thanks for all the replies.

if you go to ebay and type "fidelity 4x5 film holder NEW" or "riteway 4x5 film holder NEW"
or "lisco 4x5 film holder NEW" you will see a TON of them, NEW
with the boxes, and some with the original purchase receipt ... for not much $$
i saw a 2 pack selling for $10 USD.

good luck !
john

ps. i misspoke, some of my 8x10 and 11x14 holders are wood, still no leaks and no effort to test.

Michael Stubbs · May 19, 2016

StoneNYC: Fair enough. I was referring specifically to 5x4 holders. I just couldn't afford to go 10x8, although I would have rather liked to!

Michael Stubbs · Jun 17, 2016

In the end I decided to get new, and went for TOYO holders. Thanks everyone for the opinions.

Ronald Moravec · Jul 3, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
I'd never buy used holders unless I could either inspect them in person or was guaranteed the right to return them if they looked inadequate.

No way to tell if they leak or not. When you do stock up, number them and see if they show density where it should not be. It is expensive to check out because you ruin materials and perhaps your best shot. Just write down what neg is from what holder.

I would only buy new.

Jim Jones · Jul 4, 2016

The flaps on many of my holders are marked with serial number notches in binary numbers so any that leak light can be identified and either fixed or discarded. Better late than never.

trondsi · Jul 13, 2016

There are definitely bad film holders out in the used market, so be a bit picky.
I have six holders, all bought used, only one is Toyo. One of the others is useless, the others are ok, and the one Toyo holder is the best I have. I should get more Toyos.

Ai Print · Jul 18, 2016

Not really a fan of the site the following is posted at but it does now look like some recently purchased stock of Toyo holders are giving users trouble with not so opaque dark slides resulting in ruined negatives with strange looking blotches on them if the holder is exposed to sunlight:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?131636-Blotchy-pattern-on-4x5-negatives

I only have two new Toyo holders, the rest of mine are the older style super shiny dark slide. I'd check any recent ones for this issue. Apparently one can hold a strong LED light to the dark slide and see it through the other side if a problem holder.

removed account4 · Jul 18, 2016

as i said

sometimes NEW holders leak too.

people insisted the OP get NEW holders because they
and don't need to be tested, and now the jury is out, NEW holders from the
same manufacturer leak worse than used ones ( at least for other people )
as i had posted in this thread previously, a simple paper test would
take care of the issue, paper in, leave in sun for a small amount of time
stick in camera, take out, stick in developer examine holder ...
i've been buying and using used 4x5 holders for decades as stated in this thread
and probably evey one ( at least not slotted graflex ones ) have been used on a job or two
( submissions to state and / or federal archives and / or a library archive )
and i have never had blotchy negatives from bad leaky used holders.

hope your new holders worked out ok, OP !
if not i hope you can return them and get others.
and maybe write TOYO and get reimbursed for the wasted film,

Film holders - new or used

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