Film holders - new or used

Michael Stubbs · May 6, 2016

Hello,

Now that I've ordered a 5x4 camera, I'm looking at obtaining some film holders.

I can get hold of brand new Toyo packs of two for sixty quid per pack or thereabouts, but I've also found a studio in the UK selling off old Toyo film holders for £15 each. They describe them as good condition but well worn.

Would you guys advise stumping up for new?

I was briefly in possession of an old MPP which came with film holders, and they the dark slides were rather difficult to slide and that put me off used dark slides. These used ones are half the price of new, though...

guangong · May 6, 2016

New or used should make no difference if used are in good shape. Sfter you have used your new ones once they are used. Just make sure the used holders are clean and free of dust and grime. Try Apug “want to buy” classifieds for safest buying unseen.

CropDusterMan · May 6, 2016

Those ones the photographer is selling should be fine...It's not like you need 20 of them right?
Are you able to take the pick of the litter in person? That's what I'd do. Other option is Ebay...
plenty of good ones on there and shipping a half dozen not that much...in fact, there is a listing
on Ebay UK out of Lincolnshire for holders in "excellent" condition for 16 quid each.

Good luck,
Jason

bdial · May 6, 2016

You can buy new holders??

Used, if they are light-tight, are fine, clean is is a good attribute too. Actually, I am not sure what it takes for a holder to be not light tight, as some of mine are pretty ragged looking, but all work well.

ic-racer · May 6, 2016

Used holders can range from looking like new to useless junk. You need to see them. All my holders are used (because they don't make them any more) , but I only bought the ones that looked like new. If you know where to get new holders, I'd get them.

Ai Print · May 6, 2016

I found I had a lot less issues with dust when I purchased either hardly used or new film holders. I also have solid piece of mind in that none of my holders will have light leaks anytime soon given their condition.

I have a dozen Chamonix holders which are incredibly well made and very light and about two dozen Toyos that most were bought as used but never used in the box and a few pairs of brand new ones from B&H to round out the count.

I figure for as much as my time in the field is worth and film being $1.5 to $2.5 a pop, the last thing I need to do is cheap out on the film holders.

apkujeong · May 6, 2016

The used Toyo holders sound like a solid deal to me. By the way, old holders that are a bit sticky sometimes respond remarkably well to a bit of cleaning. Polish up the dark slide with a bit of pledge and you might be in business.

Alan Gales · May 6, 2016

I have bought all my film holders (both 4x5 and 8x10) used off Ebay. Mine all look in slightly used condition and they all work great. I've got a few 4x5 Toyos and they are my favorites.

There is nothing wrong with buying new because 4x5 holders are relatively inexpensive where new 8x10 holders are expensive. Buy used if you want to save some money to put towards film. Just remember that well used holders are more at risk for light leaks.

Ian Grant · May 6, 2016

£15 is a bit high for second-hand DDS here in the UK, I bought 2 excellent holders for £15 the pair 2 weeks ago from someone from up near the OP, and another 4 for £20. While they all seem to be around £15 on Ebay at the moment there were a few lots at significantly lower prices a week or so ago, and the price should be lower if you're buying a few.

Sometimes Peter Walnes has them on his website and usually at about £8-£10 each if you buy half a dozen.

Ian

Ai Print · May 6, 2016

I try to split the "paying field" when it comes to the game of buying new or used gear, overall about 65% used, 35% new to at least keep me associated with keeping this stuff around. If you have to buy used, obviously get as clean a holder as you can for the price point that makes the most sense for you.

But if in the position to, maybe toss a few bucks into the new equipment & materials revenue stream to keep us all afloat.

DREW WILEY · May 6, 2016

I'd never buy used holders unless I could either inspect them in person or was guaranteed the right to return them if they looked inadequate.

StoneNYC · May 6, 2016

For 8x10, new Chamonix for sure, I learned the hard way that the bigger the holders, the more prone to light leaks.

For 4x5, personally because I'm shooting things in a more professional manner these days, I would buy new Chamonix also, but I've found that the used 4x5 holders in general seem to not be as prone to light leaks.

If you're only making one or two big trips a year that you really think are important and wants to take really good images, and the trip is far away and you want to make sure the images come out, then get new holders, they are worth the extra cost, otherwise think about how much it would cost to make that trip twice when the images are ruined the first time from light leaks from used damaged holders.

That's my take.

I've also found that if you live in an area that is very dry, the plastic ones can hold static charge leading to more problems with dust, and also static spark marks on the film, where the wooden ones tend to be better about that.

Good luck.

Richard Man · May 6, 2016

I have over 30+ 4x5 film holders, all except the few Chamonix are bought used. None has light leaks. I shoot 300+ 4x5 images a year, doing two, starting a third projects.

Almost all of them are bought from LFF or here where there are names attached and the descriptions are clear.

adelorenzo · May 6, 2016

I have a menagerie of 30-40 used plastic holders (Fidelity, Riteway, Toyo...) all of which I bought cheap. Some of them look like hell but all of them work just fine. I can see no reason to buy new.

Like others have said buying on these forums is a good way to go as people will know if they are good holders or not. I bought most if not all of mine on APUG or LFPF.

removed account4 · May 6, 2016

i've never bought a new holder in almost 30 years
ive got armloads of'em, some plate ones, some film ones, wood, plastic, metal,
4x5, 5x7, 8x10, 7x11 and 11x14 never a leak.
but i have had to repair a few when i got'em wood glue ( if they were wooden ) and book binder's tape.
if you end up buying used, find book binders tape, get it. a roll will be a lifetimes supply.
if you can't get it locally, a place called gaylord brothers ( http://www.gaylord.com ) or talus
( http://www.talasonline.com ) in the states sells it,
or you can maybe google bookbinder supply near you or maybe ...
they ( gaylord or talus ) can suggest who would sell it in library / archive supplies in your neck of the woods.
what goes wrong is the bottom hinge gets worn. remove the old tape and just
put a strip of the tape on there, should be good for another eternity.
while i am sure new in box or new old stock film holders might be worth it to some
they have never been worth it for me.
if you can pick and choose the ones you want, and you are worried, ask the seller if you can light test them.
you put a sheet of photo paper in the holder and put it outside in the sun front and back
then you develop the paper and see if there are any leaks. when i've bought them sight-unseen
( not often ) its been through a photo store i trusted and they tested them and gave me "good ones"
if dark slides are sticky going in and out of the holders
i think my pal john kasaian always has suggested spraying +wiping them down with pledge furniture polish

good luck + have fun with your new camera !
john

Ai Print · May 6, 2016

I have a question...

I understand why some can't see or understand buying film holders new for themselves, but can they understand why someone else might buy new?

apkujeong · May 6, 2016

Ai Print said:
I have a question...

I understand why some can't see or understand buying film holders new for themselves, but can they understand why someone else might buy new?

Of course, money isn't a problem for some people. I knew a commercial photographer who worked for a huge marketing company - he bought everything new - second hand would have been a waste of his time (and his company time was more valuable than a few film holders). In addition to that, there are crazily wealthy amateurs who buy whatever they want. Then come the 99% or so, who have to give varying degrees of consideration to value for money. I must be in the bottom 10% - scrambling around eBay cursing postal charges.

Richard Man · May 6, 2016

Ai Print said:
...
I understand why some can't see or understand buying film holders new for themselves, but can they understand why someone else might buy new?

Why not? I don't because I don't have money. People should do whatever they like and worry less about others' opinions

Ai Print · May 6, 2016

Richard Man said:
Why not? I don't because I don't have money. People should do whatever they like and worry less about others' opinions

Oh, I am fine and there is a good range of opinions that the OP has to go on. I was just genuinely curious if that while others who would not buy new understood why some would, really.

removed account4 · May 6, 2016

Ai Print said:
I have a question...

I understand why some can't see or understand buying film holders new for themselves, but can they understand why someone else might buy new?

yup i can see why,
someone just wants to be sure they are in pristine condition ( or stuff they can count on )
when they use them. and i can totally understand that.
but as someone who started doing commercial/assignment/archival (HABS)
right out of college/grad school without any disposable income to speak of.
and now with other fiscal obligations i am in the same boat ( without much of a disposable income )
---so. used gear has always been my gear of choice.
i know all my holders well, i have used them, for years without a worry. i've done light tests,
i've bought after holding/looking at them, or i've had people i trust be my eyes.
but, sure, i can totally understand why someone would buy new.
another difference is when i would have bought them new they would have cost a small fortune
( i probably have over 150 film holders/film holding devices ( bag mags, grafmatic backs, and other septum-things ).
at least now NIB/OS is a bit more affordable than $25-$30+ a pop for each 4x5 holder,
( and much more $$$ the bigger the negative ) for a film holder.
if someone wants to spend their money on NIB or new ( S/S &c ) film holders, that's great ...
that just means more cheaper ones for people who can't afford new.

StoneNYC · May 7, 2016

apkujeong said:
Of course, money isn't a problem for some people. I knew a commercial photographer who worked for a huge marketing company - he bought everything new - second hand would have been a waste of his time (and his company time was more valuable than a few film holders). In addition to that, there are crazily wealthy amateurs who buy whatever they want. Then come the 99% or so, who have to give varying degrees of consideration to value for money. I must be in the bottom 10% - scrambling around eBay cursing postal charges.

Funny, my argument for using new holders is specifically because I'm poor, it's MORE costly in the long run to waste money on bad holders and lost shots. Then you have to buy more film but also you can't sell the bad holders (unless you're dishonest) and then buy another batch of used ones and maybe some of those are bad too.

It can be penny wise, pound foolish to buy used.

I say can be, because it's really a lot about "luck" in the used film holder market.

So can you see why one might buy new because they don't have the money to waste risking used?

It's not just the 1%ers buying new.

Just my 2 cents. And trust me I learned, I wasted a total of $500 on film that got ruined by bad holders before switching to new Chamonix, since then not a single ruined shot. Bad shots maybe, but that's on me not on my equipment, it's a huge relief knowing its one less thing to worry about.

Good luck!

Richard Man · May 7, 2016

You are talking about 8x10 holders, which are different from 4x5 There are tolerances, and there are tolerances....

Ai Print · May 7, 2016

I like my tolerances tight. I sometimes use Rollei IR400 infrared film in 4x5, it's base is paper thin, too thin for anything but Chamonix or Toyo holders in my experience.

There are plenty of good reasons to buy new holders and equally as many good reasons to buy used, one is not better than the other, right or wrong in the grand scheme of things.

I think Mr. Stubbs has plenty information now in which to make a good decision.

removed account4 · May 7, 2016

Richard Man said:
You are talking about 8x10 holders, which are different from 4x5 There are tolerances, and there are tolerances....

richard
im talking 4x5 all the way to 11x14. all used, all tested: never a problem.
i guess when you say "tolerances" you mean focus slop? never a problem with that either.

of course people can spend their $$ on whatever they want ... i have plenty of other things to spend $$ on.

YMMV

apkujeong · May 7, 2016

StoneNYC said:
Funny, my argument for using new holders is specifically because I'm poor, it's MORE costly in the long run to waste money on bad holders and lost shots.

I'm not suggesting they should run out and buy any old junk I test holders, too, before doing anything important with them.

Film holders - new or used

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