A major manufacturer built such machinery or at least the critical part themself. Especially emulsion coating was a critical step in production speed.
did ilford now admit that they bought some of their equipment from AGFA over the years.
Dear AGX,
History is important :
I have huge admiration for AGFA, the photo manufacturing world is a small one, and we have always had close relations. AGFA Photo made great products, had great technology, the Leuverkusen machine was a triumph, great people and its going away was very sad. Although as you probably know some of the AGFA finishing machines live on here at HARMAN.
I still own and treasure my father's AGFA Camera that he owned and used for 30 years.
You may or may not know that the then owner of ILFORD in 2004 made an offer to buy AGFA Photo
( for 1 Euro ) take on the laibilities and put ILFORD and AGFA together, many people here today including most of the current Board worked on that deal.
Then a 'management buy out' that gave Gaveart much more came along and the rest, very sadly, is history.
Simon. ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
A few months ago in a thread about Agfa-Gevaert by Agx; Simon R Galley wrote this:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Wow. I didn't see that post by Simon. That might have made the film world a much better place with Agfa's color technology (I really liked their Portrait 160 / Optima 100 / Ultra 50 trio - and those that like the super saturated look of Velvia would LOVE Ultra 50) and Ilford's black and white. And yes I know Agfa made some excellent black and white materials including the late lamented APX25 and APX100 and I'd love to have those - well the 100 anyway, still have some frozen 4x5, the 25 is too slow for my needs - but I don't know if Ilford would have kept the competing B&W products.
Optima 100 was a good film but really did nothing that Portra 160 isn't even better at. But there's NOTHING like Portrait 160 on the market anymore. The closest thing to Ultra 50 is Ektar 100 and it's a superb film but Ultra 50 was still more saturated (less accurate too but never mind. Think of it as "the Velvia of neg film only maybe more so."
I had no experience of their E6 films but heard they were pretty good and we'd at least have had another choice.
What could have been. Sigh. Well we got the modern Ilford/HARMAN so the glass is at least half full.
Their current reversal film is a consumer film emulsion from the 90's coated on PET base.
Their other current films are different from consumer films.
A few months ago in a thread about Agfa-Gevaert by Agx; Simon R Galley wrote this:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
As for slowing down, no, you can lose out! The emulsion needs a time to dry and if you dry to fast you blow the emulsion off the support. Drying is a critical phase and requires a set time. ...
PE
Charles, you are speculating. Too much heat restarts the sulfur or sulfur + gold sensitization up again and fogs the material. Just one example of "building" a product. Evaporative cooling in the form of low humidity must offset this effect of higher speed and temp. And, for various reasons, you cannot design backwards. That would be a train wreck. If you have a formula, you design the coating conditions backwards, but you don't pick your conditions and then pick a formula.
PE
Geeez, no wonder we had photo engineers. You guys have absolutely no imagination. Well, you guys also know nothing about film building and R&D.
We are going to be in the crapper with what you guys think up!
Charles, you are speculating. Too much heat restarts the sulfur or sulfur + gold sensitization up again and fogs the material. Just one example of "building" a product. Evaporative cooling in the form of low humidity must offset this effect of higher speed and temp. And, for various reasons, you cannot design backwards. That would be a train wreck. If you have a formula, you design the coating conditions backwards, but you don't pick your conditions and then pick a formula.
PE
Well, I never said that for starters.
But, here is an example of a coater with a 200 ft ceiling in the cabinets. You can build it to have turn around rollers at 200 ft, 100 ft and 50 ft. Is that flexible enough for you? You can build it with 3 coating stations and 2, 4, 6, 8 and etc coating hoppers which can flow at any speed you want.
And, typically, I start with a 4 layer coating and do 2 passes to get an 8 layer coating, or 3 passes for a 12 layer coating. In production, they would just use a higher ceiling with more dryer space! Geeez, no wonder we had photo engineers. You guys have absolutely no imagination. Well, you guys also know nothing about film building and R&D.
We are going to be in the crapper with what you guys think up!
PE
Well i certainly dont know very much about photo chemistry at all, but from what ive read from your posts and other people here, ive learned a great deal!
I have to hand it to these guys in Italy, i would love to visit their factory and meet the team!
Have you ever considered going over there to meet them?
You should contact them, i reckon you could get a job in helping them develop new film formulas and have a holiday at the same time!
They certainly would be keen to meet someone who had experience in film manufacture, especially the likes of Kodak and Kodachrome, im sure you would be able to provide valuable skills for them.
Ron:
A visit to Italy would be a nice change from the barn, don't you think?
Charles, you are speculating.
Too much heat ... fogs the material. ... Evaporative cooling in the form of low humidity must offset this effect of higher speed and temp.
And, for various reasons, you cannot design backwards. That would be a train wreck. If you have a formula, you design the coating conditions backwards, but you don't pick your conditions and then pick a formula.
That's why I always believed that Kodak was in the industrial films and coatings business, not the "imaging" business. That's where they made their mistake.
They could have done wondrous things if they stuck with coatings. Like PV solar cells, new batteries from rolled films. Even auto coatings that wrapped on and set with heat-shrink or uv light and could even change color with weather, darkness or even a user adjusted controller. Do things no one else could do or even think about doing.
I think Kodak was involved with early OLED development. That's the stuff I'm thinking about.
Who knows where this new adventure will take Film Ferrania?
Ron:
A visit to Italy would be a nice change from the barn, don't you think?
Kodaks management did do things no one else would think about doing - wrong things...
If Ilford have not done colour (or cine or 220) for decade(s) why are Ferranni trying to restart - there is no E6 market they should have tried C41 first or mono.
There are too few E6 labs left. There are not that many C41 labs left. Impossible does not need labs. It was the C41 labs that killed Polariod.
What % of the mono market is reversal?
Well, I never said that for starters.
But, here is an example of a coater with a 200 ft ceiling in the cabinets. You can build it to have turn around rollers at 200 ft, 100 ft and 50 ft. Is that flexible enough for you? You can build it with 3 coating stations and 2, 4, 6, 8 and etc coating hoppers which can flow at any speed you want.
And, typically, I start with a 4 layer coating and do 2 passes to get an 8 layer coating, or 3 passes for a 12 layer coating. In production, they would just use a higher ceiling with more dryer space! Geeez, no wonder we had photo engineers. You guys have absolutely no imagination. Well, you guys also know nothing about film building and R&D.
We are going to be in the crapper with what you guys think up!
PE
I disagree, i commend Film Ferrania for releasing E6 as their first film, its a film that needs to be saved before it fades away completley.
Im not interested in shooting C41 films, they simply dont achieve the effects im after.
E6 is also cruical for motion picture formats such as super8 and 16mm etc.
If Fuji stop E6 production, it could very well be the end for all E6 if Ferrania dont get this up and running before that happens
I do have to say that im surprised how many hobbyists are into super8, but i think thats a good thing!
We will only get more people out there shooting the stuff, since kodak took away Kodachrome 40 and E100D, the feedback that Ferrania have received about super8 has been amazing.
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