Film fogged going through airport security.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 17, 2014

Prof_Pixel said:
...but they CAN scan it several times.

which is why I recommend putting the film through the scanner in a separate bag from the camera gear. I've never had a bag of film, maybe with a few books, scanned more than once. The camera bag, on the other hand, has all kinds of unrecognizeable things. Cable releases for some reason are a TSA magnet, because they look like syringes, I suppose. Linhof rangefinder cams look like blades. I usually put those in a separate little case that goes in my checked luggage, and that cuts down on some of the extra inspections as well.

Nige · Aug 18, 2014

why do the TSA advertise hand checks for film (on posters you can read while in the queue for 'security') and then treat you like a terrorist... if you don't want to do it, don't advertise you do, pretty simple!

r.reeder · Aug 18, 2014

winger said:
How old was the film? I don't remember seeing that in your post. Speed? If the dust is still on the frames that's showing in the scans, then I wouldn't use that lab again. But mishandling it and bending it won't cause fog. Age, high temps, especially if high speed all will.

Thanks. The film was new, & I have kept it in the freezer until a few days before I use it. It's ASA100. & the dust is from me. I realized that they were bad negatives, & I didn't bother to de-dust them. Usually I go to that trouble, but I was so disappointed, I just didn't do it.

r.reeder · Aug 18, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Looks like under exposure or contaminated chemistry or both to me... Were all the frames like that? Compare the negatives to a properly exposed negative, is the image STRONG or is it very thin and faint?

Thanks. They were very thin & faint. I know the camera works well, so it's not underexposure. The sprocket area of the film was also exposed.

StoneNYC · Aug 18, 2014

r.reeder said:
Thanks. They were very thin & faint. I know the camera works well, so it's not underexposure. The sprocket area of the film was also exposed.

You mean the film rebate was also very thin?

If so then it's the developer they used has been exhausted.

If the rebate was STRONG but image was thin, it is the exposure.

Sheesh this is terrible, I'm glad I don't go through this, I send everything to a professional lab... Paraus for developing color...

Dead Link Removed

Ph0t0_man · Aug 18, 2014

jnanian said:
not outside the usa.

Another good reason not to fly outside the USA

pbromaghin · Aug 19, 2014

hdeyong said:
From what I understand, back in the old days, before they made X-rays safe for film, (which in my experience, they absolutely are), an affected film had bands or stripes of exposed area. As a matter of fact, I'd seen a few many years ago, and I never saw or heard of one that that was evenly fogged. I really think you have another problem.

I just processed 5 rolls of tri-x, 4 of which went through Denver and San Diego airports. All 5 came from the same 100ft reel, were mounted in the same type of cartridge during the same session, and went through the same camera. 1 of the 4 was exposed after returning from the trip. All 4 that went through x-ray had stripes as mentioned above. The 5th, that stayed home, turned out just fine. There was another 400 iso color roll that made the trip and was exposed in a different camera. Processed at a lab, it turned out just fine.

In this case, at both airports, the bag either went through twice, or was moved back and forth, being re-exposed while they tried to figure out what they were looking at.

For me, it's hand check from now on.

removed account4 · Aug 19, 2014

Ph0t0_man said:
Another good reason not to fly outside the USA

lol

kind of hard when part of your family lives outside the usa

StoneNYC · Aug 19, 2014

pbromaghin said:
I just processed 5 rolls of tri-x, 4 of which went through Denver and San Diego airports. All 5 came from the same 100ft reel, were mounted in the same type of cartridge during the same session, and went through the same camera. 1 of the 4 was exposed after returning from the trip. All 4 that went through x-ray had stripes as mentioned above. The 5th, that stayed home, turned out just fine. There was another 400 iso color roll that made the trip and was exposed in a different camera. Processed at a lab, it turned out just fine.

In this case, at both airports, the bag either went through twice, or was moved back and forth, being re-exposed while they tried to figure out what they were looking at.

For me, it's hand check from now on.

So wait, then could it be the camera?

Also have you checked that spool? Maybe the spools are bad? Hmm strange.

removed account4 · Aug 19, 2014

pbromaghin said:
I just processed 5 rolls of tri-x, 4 of which went through Denver and San Diego airports. All 5 came from the same 100ft reel, were mounted in the same type of cartridge during the same session, and went through the same camera. 1 of the 4 was exposed after returning from the trip. All 4 that went through x-ray had stripes as mentioned above. The 5th, that stayed home, turned out just fine. There was another 400 iso color roll that made the trip and was exposed in a different camera. Processed at a lab, it turned out just fine.

In this case, at both airports, the bag either went through twice, or was moved back and forth, being re-exposed while they tried to figure out what they were looking at.

For me, it's hand check from now on.

i'd get everything hand checked going through us airports, they don't mind
and it is piece of mind ... of one less thing to worry about. i'm not looking forward to
processing the film they insisted would be fine on my return flight a few days ago ..
because i KNOW they won't be fine ... maybe i'll just expose 1 normally process it normally
and see what happens and if it is all striped, i'll just use it all for fixer tests ..
kind of drag with iso 1600 film i had better things to do with it than fixer tests ..

Jaf-Photo · Aug 19, 2014

Hmmm...

This is one of those subects bordering on the paranoid.

My own experience is that undeveloped film doesn't get fogged in airport x-ray machines. But my impression is that sometimes undeveloped images have coarser grain and a flatter look if carried through x-ray.

To check this I have left parts of films unexposed and carried them back and forth through airport x-rays. The unexposed parts come out absolutely clear when developed.

But the exposed frames do seem to have harsher grain than normal. This may of course be all in my mind and only a proper blind test could solve it.

analoguey · Aug 19, 2014

RattyMouse said:
How do you know that shipped packages aren't X-rayed? Aren't air cargo planes protected from bombs?

Indeed! I'd expect that x-ray machines are turned off higher for cargo?

Ph0t0_man said:
You have the right to have your film hand checked regardless of the ISO. TSA doesn't like it but it is your right.

Maybe not a right per se, but one can always request.
Arguing rights with an airport security officer over x-ray might just make things turn for the worse.

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pbromaghin · Aug 19, 2014

StoneNYC said:
So wait, then could it be the camera?

Also have you checked that spool? Maybe the spools are bad? Hmm strange.

All 5 - same spool, same cartridge types, same camera, same developing session.
4 went on a trip. 1 stayed home. It's just fine.

Also, I should add that one of the bad films has perfect little pictures of sprocket holes about 1/8 inch into the exposure field.

RattyMouse · Aug 20, 2014

What does a TSA agent say if you hand them a bag of 50 rolls of 120 film for "hand inspection"? Seriously, what's the limit here?

Nuff · Aug 20, 2014

RattyMouse said:
What does a TSA agent say if you hand them a bag of 50 rolls of 120 film for "hand inspection"? Seriously, what's the limit here?

I'm not sure about TSA, but I asked for hand inspection of my 60+ rolls of film in Kathmandu on a day of Maoist riots. There's risks of bombings and security was on highest alert.
Playing my ignorant tourist card at the airport, I asked to hand inspect. The look on the guys face was priceless
I recall there were 3 scans out and into the airport, I managed to avoid 2 of them, so I was pretty happy.

AgX · Aug 20, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
All online film and photo paper retailers offer a full range of shipment options from standard ground (rail/truck) to next-day (air). It's how most of us receive our sensitized products. They wouldn't ship by air (or rail or truck) if there was even the slightest chance that their customer's purchases would arrive destroyed.

I have information from a experienced european retailer that at leat one of the shipments he sent out overseas had been fogged du to X-rays.

mgb74 · Aug 20, 2014

AgX said:
I have information from a experienced european retailer that at leat one of the shipments he sent out overseas had been fogged du to X-rays.

It's entirely possible that, while cargo on cargo flights is not typically x-rayed, a specific container might be. For example, looking for drugs. And cargo on a passenger flight might be x-rayed as well.

I assume that cargo planes are not a tempting target for terrorists. Even the printer toner cartridge bombs found in cargo flights from Yemen were intended to go off at the synagogues they addressed to, not on the flight.

analoguey · Aug 20, 2014

There was an attempt at cargo carriers - or so the news said. Here's a link http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot

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Roger Cole · Aug 20, 2014

StoneNYC said:
From personal experience I think it's a little bit of both, I don't know if maybe it's the way the x-rays go through the camera body itself that accentuate the fog, or if the metal in the camera make them want to examine it further, but in 2010 on my Kodachrome adventure, I went through an airport where they just insisted that they send my camera through the x-ray machine, everyone else that I had been through understood that the film was in the camera and you couldn't take the lens off or open the back and look at it all without exposing the film, but these people didn't and apparently I looked suspicious so they wouldn't hand inspect the camera and send it through, well there was this really heavy banding with all of the images in that roll, it's the only roll out of the, I think 75 rolls, that had any issues, and the only one to go through X-Ray.

This was ASA64 film... This was a "modern" x-ray machine in 2010 at the Key West airport in Florida, small but not exactly backwoods that they would have an older machine.

So I always tell them that the film is 3200 speed film no matter what it actually is and make them hand inspect it, and I always make sure I've used up the roll of film before flying out.

What a waste... They were great shots too...

Couldn't take the lens off? What kind of camera has interchangable (removable) lenses yet can't be changed without fogging film? Either they have focal plane shutters which makes this safe or they have darkslides which make it safe.

mgb74 · Aug 20, 2014

analoguey said:
There was an attempt at cargo carriers - or so the news said. Here's a link http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot

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That was the example I referenced. Reports I saw indicated that they were intended to explode when received; one via cell phone (which would not work in a cargo plane) and one via timer.

analoguey · Aug 20, 2014

Ah, Okay! isnt this also why no batteries are allowed to be shipped with devices anymore?

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mgb74 · Aug 20, 2014

analoguey said:
Ah, Okay! isnt this also why no batteries are allowed to be shipped with devices anymore?

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No. That's due to risk of fire.

removed account4 · Aug 20, 2014

i just spoke with feddex on the telephone a little while ago
and was told they dont' exray parcels if they are being shipped in the states
but if it is shipped overseas they have no control over customs or a 3rd partycarrier
that might exray cargo on their planes &c ... i wasn't able to talk to other carriers ...

StoneNYC · Aug 20, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Couldn't take the lens off? What kind of camera has interchangable (removable) lenses yet can't be changed without fogging film? Either they have focal plane shutters which makes this safe or they have darkslides which make it safe.

Well it's an AE-1 and it was key west Florida and the airport is a big giant glass box (like the apple store in New York) and the cloth focal plane shutter's on those are notorious for being not completely light proof and they wanted to open it up in the bright sunlight and then take a high beam flashlight to it. In hind site loosing one frame was probably acceptable and I wasn't thinking.

But I didn't think the fogging would be THAT bad...

Vilk · Aug 20, 2014

some two dozen gates per year and one foolproof answer--

http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/images/products/gallery/Paterson_Multi_Tank2_3.jpg

you can get ID-11 everywhere worth going to

Film fogged going through airport security.

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