Film Developers that keep well

What Uhner said -- I use a 10 ml medicine syringe sold for measuring kid's doses. It's a dollar or two item.

DaveT

An informative experiment: put a drop of HC-110 syrup on a snip of film leader and see how long it takes to turn black under the drop. After a minute, add a drop of water.

Water is the magic elixir. Lack of water is the secret of stock solution longevity. Water is not one of the ingredients of the stock solutions of HC-110 or PC-TEA or Pyrocat HD in glycol.

The mystery of the longevity of Rodinal stock remains unsolved. It has been said, however, that p-aminophenol is less easily oxidized by air than other developing agents.

Anything syrupy stored in something that is not plastic will probably keep best over the very long term, aside from sealed pre-mixed powdered developers, which will likely hold their potency forever if they remain sealed. I like Ilfotec HC/HC-110. I use them quickly enough that I do not bother to decant the concentrates into glass bottles, but if I didn't use them much, I might do so. I also have used stock HC solutions that were over six months old and the negatives turned out as expected. Another time, I kept a 1:31 working solution for about four months in a half-full plastic bottle and it also worked as expected. I diluted it to 1:63 before use, and developed an unimportant test roll of old film, just out of curiosity. Pretty amazing.

Another experiment is to agitate 1 ml of Rodinal stock in an open container until it gets really black and then see how much water you must add to make it look like old Rodinal. P-aminophenol is the base of some pretty strong dyes. What I mean is that the color of Rodinal stock is no real indicator of its strength.

As a working solution, the only one that comes to mind is D-76 (and its kin). There are no doubt others, but few are now common (maybe DK-50 and DK-60a). As stock solutions, there are many. HC-110 and Rodinal immediately come to mind. Pyrocat-HD does well. There are also many referneces in the forums to developers that use TEA or glycol as a solvent for the stock solution, and they are said to have long lives.

I'm using Edwal 12 as a replenished system. Developers containing glycin have incredible keeping qualities. Glycin, in dry form, does not keep well, but mixed, it does.

Along the line proposed by Ms. Senft, you can go to your local "home brew" or winemaking store and buy a can of mixed inert gases for about $7. It gives you about 140 shots of Argon/nitrogen/CO2 mix which is heavier than air and forms a triple blanket of gas just over the surface, preventing oxidation. You just need a tiny squirt; the idea is not to drive the air out, just to give you that blanket that prevents contact with the oxygen.

Also, I have stored developers in the mylar bags such as some cheap (box) wines come in, filling them completely full and then drawing out just what I need each time using the provided spigot. I've been buying these from a survival gear company; they sell them for water storage. The ones that work best are those that have the one-piece flat-faced molded spigot that works by distorting the plastic, not the kind that has a valve (those break when I try to pry them off). Franzia uses these, and at least DID have the right bags -- the right ones are silver mylar. If you can stand to drink that swill. I can't so I revert to the survival shop - http://www.survivalsolutions.com/store/product40.html . I have kept developers, including color developers, fresh for very long periods of time. Years! I just mixed a new batch of Beutler's a couple of weeks ago -- my 2000 vintage seemed a bit old. The new is just the same as what I threw away in the way it works. Such a waste! Beutler's is a two part stock, the reducing agent package as A, the carbonate as B. This requires 2 bags, and I'm sure contributes greatly to its longevity. However, I have kept E6 and color printing solutions this same way, which remained fresh for at least a year.

With the E12, I fill the 1 liter working solution bottle to the very top so no air is admitted, and I store the fresh replenisher in a bag.

Fotospeed FD10 seems to last well. I have a litre that I opened about a year ago that's still going strong. The container is very soft, so it's easy to exclude the air after each use. There's no appreciable darkening or change of colour yet.

Steve

Diafine lasts a long time too. Thats a two bath developer and as long as you don't mix the two parts up it should last for years.
Kind regards

Soeren said:

Diafine lasts a long time too. Thats a two bath developer and as long as you don't mix the two parts up it should last for years.

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Quite true, and it has other attractive features as well, such as some flexibility in temperature.

gainer said:

Another experiment is to agitate 1 ml of Rodinal stock in an open container until it gets really black and then see how much water you must add to make it look like old Rodinal. P-aminophenol is the base of some pretty strong dyes. What I mean is that the color of Rodinal stock is no real indicator of its strength.

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Is Rodinal thick and syrupy like HC110, or is it thinner like D76 stock solutions?

Last questions on Rodinal (for now, if I try it, I may have a whole bunch more) is it best to move it to a glass bottle from the plastic one it comes in, or does it keep okay in the plastic. Should one use the glass bead trick to keep the bottle full, or is it okay to use a half full bottle.

Rodinal keeps very well in the original plastic container. It will darken over time, but that does not effect its activity; and no, it is not thick like HC-110; it's very much like water.

Rodinal used to come in these great graduated brown glass bottles with rubber stoppers designed for hypodermic needles. My stepfather used to do the books for a veterinarian friend, and always had the needles to use to get it out; and, of course the hypodermics were graduated in ml (then cc) so it was incredibly easy and convenient to mix. I still have some of the bottles, which I use to store chemicals that like that kind of storage container.

At last someone recommended Diafine. It sounds like the ideal developer for the occasional user who uses diferent films, on and off (like me). Take heed of the warning to never allow bath 'B' into bath 'A'. That way lies disaster. I keep 'A' in the fridge as a precaution but it's probably an overkill. You might like to Google 'Barry Thornton' and two bath. If you're inclined to mix your own, there is good advice there.

All the other recommended developers that aren't syrup keep well for an awful long time in a wine bladder in the fridge, too. Exclude any air before replacing the 'tap'. No air and reactions slowed by the cold. Just remember to give it a good shake before taking off the amount you want to use. At low temps the various ingredients may separate as a precipitate. At room temp they soon redisolve.

Diafine is a developer that covers a lot of sins in exposure. For me the tap water can be anywhere from 20-30 deg C. Diafine handles the variation with ease.

Murray
Brisbane

I am working on my 2nd batch of replensihed Edwal 12, now a year old. My first batch lasted over 2 years, but I let it sit for 6 months without replensihment and it expired. I also have several bottles of Rodinal, I found a small glass bottle was lost in the clutter last week, must be over 20 years old, I developed a roll of EFKE 25 at 1:100 still good. I have HC110, Tmax, and DDX with are all over 2 years old. Clayton F76 does not keep for than 3 or 4 months unopened. 777 also seems to have along shelf life. I have know landscape folks who claimed to have tanks of D76 that dated back decades, perhaps myth.

jim appleyard said:

Rodinal keeps very well in the original plastic container. It will darken over time, but that does not effect its activity; and no, it is not thick like HC-110; it's very much like water.

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I have a 500ml bottle of Rodinal, 1977 vintage, about a quarter full. I tested it in 2002 at the 25 year point, the performance was virtually indistinguishable from fresh stock, although visually the developer resembles creosote. I'm hoping to try it again in 2027 but might have to bring the date forward.

For good keeping qualities, nobody has so far mentioned Ilford LC29 which is supposed to be particularly good in this respect.

Martin Reed said:

For good keeping qualities, nobody has so far mentioned Ilford LC29 which is supposed to be particularly good in this respect.

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Ilfotech HC is just as good, and some HC110, and Tmax Developer.

Ian