Film/developer combo for grain.

waynecrider · Jul 20, 2006

This is a grainy look I seek to achieve thru film / development procedures. (The image is for representation purposes only.) My finished print will be a 6x9 thru 8x10 contact thru enlarged negative using a condensor enlarger; Depending on the nuances of the grain "look", I'm prefering to stay with 35mm film, perhaps MF.

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=261975&ck=

DBP · Jul 20, 2006

Looks like the grain I get from t-grain films. How about Delta 3200 in Rodinal?

raucousimages · Jul 20, 2006

Tri-X in Rodinol.

Paul Howell · Jul 20, 2006

You can also shot Tri X and develop in Dektol, DK 50, push Tri X to 3200 and develop in D 76 or Acufine. You can also enhance gain by using an orange or red filter.

Jerevan · Jul 20, 2006

I second Tri-X in Rodinal or Calbe R09. Nice, tight grain. But Ilford Delta 3200 or Kodak TMZ 3200 will give you even larger grain. I don't think I ever tested Delta in Rodinal so I can't give you any advice there.

Edit: took a look at your example picture - grains galore! Rodinal will at least give you the acutance needed to get sharply defined grain.

jim appleyard · Jul 20, 2006

You can also shoot with a wide-angle lens or step back and give lots of room around the subject, or both, then crop to fit. Plus, using the above info should give you plenty of grain.

DBP · Jul 20, 2006

I've found the t-grain films have rounder grain, like the posted example. More traditional films such as Tri-X have a more elongated look to the grains. Personally I prefer the latter look, but I thought Wayne was going for the former.

MMfoto · Jul 20, 2006

I'll recommend Fortepan 400 and Rodinal.

pentaxuser · Jul 20, 2006

If you can, have a look at Navajo Power Station,p26 Creative B&W Photography by Les McLean. I hesitate to give more details as its Les' book and copyright arises. May be Les will give the OK to say more.

Maybe you have the book. If not I'd buy it. There are great illustrations of what's possible in terms of gritty shots and lots more.

pentaxuser

waynecrider · Jul 20, 2006

A quick thanks for everyone's recommendations. I never did keep up with Rodinal thread here; It's still available somewhere?

I had thought about trying FX1 or FX2. Does anyone have experience with these developers?

I understand that TriX is a different emulsion then what it once was. In fact I read an article somewhere, I believe in Photo Techniques, comparing the new Tmax, (perhaps TMY) and TriX in testing Does anyone remember that particular article? I faintly remember them talking about the grain comparsion and that TRiX was the better film

jim appleyard · Jul 20, 2006

Rodinal is available:http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=4697

dmax · Jul 21, 2006

Wayne,
If you can find packets of Kodak's DK50 or D19, you'll get good grain with Tri X.

Tom Hoskinson · Jul 22, 2006

If you can't find Kodak packaged DK-50 and D-19, you can mix your own:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Kodak DK-50

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Kodak D-19

tob · Jul 23, 2006

Wayne,

waynecrider said:
I had thought about trying FX1 or FX2. Does anyone have experience with these developers?

I had good results with Maco UP400 and FX-1 at 70°F for 20 minutes: Dead Link Removed

That film, as far as I know has been discontinued but since the emulsion was basically that of HP5+ you might want to give it a try. If you want to increase grain even more increase the amount of sodium carbonate. Try Part A of FX-1 but use Part B of Beutler and reduce the development time to 16-17 minutes.

waynecrider said:
I understand that TriX is a different emulsion then what it once was. In fact I read an article somewhere, I believe in Photo Techniques, comparing the new Tmax, (perhaps TMY) and TriX in testing Does anyone remember that particular article? I faintly remember them talking about the grain comparsion and that TRiX was the better film

The new Tri-X will produce grain in Rodinal or FX-1 but it'll be no way near what you're looking for. Tri-X is indeed finer grained than T-Max 400. That being said, you'll get a lot closer to the desired result with T-Max 3200 exposed at 1600 ISO developed in Rodinal or HC-110. Here are two examples of it developed in HC-110: Dead Link Removed, Dead Link Removed

Tobias

Ryuji · Jul 24, 2006

waynecrider said:
This is a grainy look I seek to achieve thru film / development procedures. (The image is for representation purposes only.) My finished print will be a 6x9 thru 8x10 contact thru enlarged negative using a condensor enlarger; Depending on the nuances of the grain "look", I'm prefering to stay with 35mm film, perhaps MF.

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=261975&ck=

The image looks like shot on Kodak HIE film. Developer is unimportant- use XTOL or D-76 1+1.

Just for grain effect, I suggest Kodak T-MAX P3200. It has the biggest and most beautiful grain in my opinion. Delta 3200 has finer grain but grain itself isn't as beautiful.

df cardwell · Jul 24, 2006

Either FX-2 or Rodinal make lovely, regular grain, and a pleasant and controllable tonal range.

Pick one, then run tests with Plus X, Tri X, and 3200. Pick the one that suits you !

Dektol / D-72, diluted 1+10, is a traditional way of making cleanly rendered grain.

The danger point in your technique will be keeping the grain exactly sharp through the inter-positive and internegative. You might be ahead of the game shooting the original in a fine grain manner, and introducing the grainy emulsion only as the inter-positive. OR, you could shoot the original into a positive on grainy emulsion, and enlarge THAT to an inter-negative. Interesting problem.

Paul Howell · Jul 24, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
If you can't find Kodak packaged DK-50 and D-19, you can mix your own:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Kodak DK-50

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Kodak D-19

You can both Dk 50 and D 19 clones from Photoghers Formulary

waynecrider · Jul 24, 2006

df cardwell said:
Either FX-2 or Rodinal make lovely, regular grain, and a pleasant and controllable tonal range.

Pick one, then run tests with Plus X, Tri X, and 3200. Pick the one that suits you !

Dektol / D-72, diluted 1+10, is a traditional way of making cleanly rendered grain.

The danger point in your technique will be keeping the grain exactly sharp through the inter-positive and internegative. You might be ahead of the game shooting the original in a fine grain manner, and introducing the grainy emulsion only as the inter-positive. OR, you could shoot the original into a positive on grainy emulsion, and enlarge THAT to an inter-negative. Interesting problem.

I decided to buy TFX2 to start with and add to my two existing developers. TFX2 will also allow me to do some more stand developing for regular imaging and I hear the tonal range is better, although perhaps not as grainy. Rodinal and DK50 seem to be speed retaining developers and TFX2 if it acts like FX2 will be a legitimate speed increasing developer which is what I'm looking for.

I'm enlarging onto Bergger ortho film. I've never been very aware of grain problems with it before.

I ordered TriX in 35mm and 120; Perhaps I would have done otherwise reading the end of this thread. I also ordered Delta 3200 instead of TMax. Delta's grains are shorter and fatter then TMax's.

nworth · Jul 26, 2006

Rodinal is famous for its very visible but tightly controlled grain. Delta 3200 in Rodinal, or even Tri-X in Rodinal should show excellent grain. You might also try DK-50 (straight) or DK-60a. The latter may also be a bit contrasty. It is worth noting that different films can have quite different grain structures. Compare TMZ and Delta 3200, or Tri-X and HP-5+. If you want to see the grain, you will need to look for a film whose grain structure you like.

HeliH · Jul 26, 2006

I like Ilford Delta 3200 in Rodinal. Here's one: Dead Link Removed shot on 35 mm film. But I have to say the grain looks much more beautiful and sharper in the print, this web version doesn't look that good at all

waynecrider · Jul 30, 2006

HeliH said:
I like Ilford Delta 3200 in Rodinal. Here's one: Dead Link Removed shot on 35 mm film. But I have to say the grain looks much more beautiful and sharper in the print, this web version doesn't look that good at all

Thanks for the link. Looks like I'll have to order the Rodinal after all. The mood of the picture is what I am looking for. When I use the TFX2 I bought I'll post a picture using something like the same setup for comparsion: Albeit at the electronic mediums influence.

Film/developer combo for grain.

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