Film / dev combination for big grain in 120

ITD · Nov 8, 2016

Hi

I want an option that gives me huge grain when I'm using a MF camera. I first thought of Ilford Delta 3200 in Rodinal but the examples I looked at on Flickr didn't look as grainy as I'd hoped. Is there another combination that will really push the grain in that format?

Thanks

Paul

Gerald C Koch · Nov 8, 2016

Your not going to get huge grain from any 120 film. This is due to the smaller amount of magnification needed to make prints. You can shoot 35 mm or you can use a grain mask. Either buy one or make your own.

darkroommike · Nov 8, 2016

ITD said:
Hi

I want an option that gives me huge grain when I'm using a MF camera. I first thought of Ilford Delta 3200 in Rodinal but the examples I looked at on Flickr didn't look as grainy as I'd hoped. Is there another combination that will really push the grain in that format?

Thanks

Paul

You'd probably do better pushing a 400 speed film to 1600 than processing a Delta 3200. Try something "old school" like the Ultrafine Extreme 120 400 pushed 2 stops or jump in your time machine and get some 120 Royal-X Pan.

ITD · Nov 8, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
Your not going to get huge grain from any 120 film. This is due to the smaller amount of magnification needed to make prints. You can shoot 35 mm or you can use a grain mask. Either buy one or make your own.

That sounds like it might be an interesting project. I just googled but turn up nothing. Do you know where I might find out how to make one?

Craig · Nov 8, 2016

I'd say use an old style film, like Foma retropan and then develop in Rodinal. Probably pushed a stop or two.

Paul Howell · Nov 8, 2016

Foma 400 pushed to 1600 and develop in D72 or Detktol

removed account4 · Nov 8, 2016

hi paul

i am not sure what kind of camera you are using but
you can always use a wide angle lens and enlarge the image to
suit your needs. you can also use caffenolc mixed with a little
stock print developer like dektol and under expose your film a little bit
and over develop it a little. i tend to like to over expose my film and over
develop it a little and i get really nice grain with 120 format. not sure how big you want it
but when you start hearing stories about golf ball sized grain using print developer like dektol,
don't believe it. dektol / d72 / ansco 130 will give you a nice smooth toned negative without giant grain.
usually the people who say that dektol or ansco 130 &c are your answers to golf ball sized grain
might not have done what they suggest you to do.
good luck with your experiments !
john

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 8, 2016

The grainiest negatives I've ever seen in 120 are Fomapan 400, shot at 100, and processed in PMK Pyro.
They are glorious negatives, sharp and beautiful. Grainy.

Scan of an 8x8" print.

Craig75 · Nov 8, 2016

get that developer hot hot hot

ITD · Nov 8, 2016

Craig75 said:
get that developer hot hot hot

How hot are we talking?

Craig75 · Nov 8, 2016

I was just wondering the same thing as you (but with 35mm) and Richard Henry got max grain out of tri-x (he only tested kodak films) at 100 f with the film going into a pre hardener first so hot rodinal is the way i'm going to try it - but in HP5 as I have that in the house.

Zach-MLT-MD · Nov 8, 2016

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60507290@N05/30547307705/in/datetaken/ this is a 2+ push of delta 3200 - Dev in DDX. I would suggest using DDX and being "kind of rough" with your agitation that will bring out some grain I'd think.

removed account4 · Nov 8, 2016

100 f

good luck with that
i would not do this on anything important

Lachlan Young · Nov 8, 2016

Overexpose, overprocess & print on Grade 5. It'll bring the grain out like buckshot - it's a method used by Ralph Gibson & a number of others for decades. Unlike pushing wildly, you don't lose the shadows.

Craig75 · Nov 8, 2016

jnanian said:
i would not do this on anything important before you test it on something you don't care about

yes. an important caveat!

removed account4 · Nov 8, 2016

Craig75 said:
yes. an important caveat!

from my experience on using hot developer and no hardener bath ( maybe that was my problem ? )
is when the developer was drained and fixer added, the emulsion was in the developer and looked like AH dye.
not a good feeling when you are processing 8 rolls of film, to end up with 8 blank rolls at the end of it all.
my developer was about 80-85ºF there is no way i would ever process film that hot again, even if i was paid to do it.

hacked - sepiareverb · Nov 8, 2016

+1 on the Foma 400. Never pushed it, but it is the grainiest 400 I've used.

Craig75 · Nov 8, 2016

jnanian said:
from my experience on using hot developer and no hardener bath ( maybe that was my problem ? )
is when the developer was drained and fixer added, the emulsion was in the developer and looked like AH dye.
not a good feeling when you are processing 8 rolls of film, to end up with 8 blank rolls at the end of it all.
my developer was about 80-85ºF there is no way i would ever process film that hot again, even if i was paid to do it.

yes slowly slowly with the testing - one roll at a time and a hardener.

the other option is a cold developer - say 15 or 16 degrees which seems to increase grain significantly (although not as radically as going hotter) - combine that with Lachlan's advice and that's probably a safer starting point so there is no tears

Sirius Glass · Nov 8, 2016

You will have a tough time finding that using an MF camera. Try a ISO 400 black & white film such as Tri-X or HP5+ with a half frame [aka single frame] camera such as a Tessina.

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 8, 2016

ITD said:
Hi
I want an option that gives me huge grain when I'm using a MF camera. I first thought of Ilford Delta 3200 in Rodinal but the examples I looked at on Flickr didn't look as grainy as I'd hoped. Is there another combination that will really push the grain in that format?

Flickr images are too small and are mangled on uploads.
Max Delta out. Delta P3200 @EI 12,800 P+1 in D76 (this is my method; others will differ). But you must print quite large (e.g. 60x70cm) from any MF film to have grain really visible. At this high ISO, Delta P3200 is userful for contrasty, grainy abstract subjects like pinhole work.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 8, 2016

ITD said:
That sounds like it might be an interesting project. I just googled but turn up nothing. Do you know where I might find out how to make one?

I have seen masks for 35mm advertised. For 120 you may have to make your own.

There are several interesting subjects to use for making masks. The masks should be of low contrast and rather thin. You will probably have to experiment a bit as to exposure and contrast. Sandwich with your negative emulsion side to emulsion side.

o A close up of sand that is lighted at an acute angle.
o Gravel at a farther distance.
o Pebbles at a beach.
o Wood grain.
o Grass
o Elbow macaroni produces an interesting effect. Sort of like reticulation.
o A close up of cigarette butts with a negative of a smoker.
o A tray of carpet tacks.

The possibilities are really endless.

Zach-MLT-MD · Nov 8, 2016

sepiareverb said:
+1 on the Foma 400. Never pushed it, but it is the grainiest 400 I've used.

Ive pushed Holga 400 by foma +2 it is super grainy but in the right context i really like the look.

bdial · Nov 8, 2016

Ilford SFX is pretty grainy, if grain was the goal I'd process it in Rodinal.

Kawaiithulhu · Nov 8, 2016

Just enlarge a teeny, tiny half-frame postage stamp of the entire negative. There's no other way you're going to get anything resembling classic grain from a negative so big.

darkroommike · Nov 9, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
I have seen masks for 35mm advertised. For 120 you may have to make your own.

There are several interesting subjects to use for making masks. The masks should be of low contrast and rather thin. You will probably have to experiment a bit as to exposure and contrast. Sandwich with your negative emulsion side to emulsion side.

o A close up of sand that is lighted at an acute angle.
o Gravel at a farther distance.
o Pebbles at a beach.
o Wood grain.
o Grass
o Elbow macaroni produces an interesting effect. Sort of like reticulation.
o A close up of cigarette butts with a negative of a smoker.
o A tray of carpet tacks.

The possibilities are really endless.

Paterson made texture screens for 6x6, there's a set on Ebay right now... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paterson-te...395858?hash=item41b6b825d2:g:bFIAAOSwLnBX7n9c

Film / dev combination for big grain in 120

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