Film Cost Management

btaylor · May 19, 2018

Ha! Yes, California is awful. Taxes are too high, property is too expensive and the people along the coast are too liberal. I hope that will discourage more people from moving here!

pentaxuser · May 19, 2018

jnanian said:
we don't know what sales taxes or high prices are ...
i mean 200$ to fill your car with gas !!!!
people in the us have nothing to complain about

Yes fuel for cars is much more expensive here but just on a point of information. that's about a 120 litre tank. Most cars in the U.K. do not have tanks anything like that size. Do most U.S. cars have tanks that size?

pentaxuser

Tim Stapp · May 19, 2018

Come to central Michigan where my property taxes are less than $800 per year. The sales tax is at 6% and the income tax is at 4.6%.

Back to the price increase, it seems that everyone has increased prices. The new Ilford importer, Freestyle has increased the price of their Arista EDU Ultra to be almost if not equal to the same FOMA product, to the point that the Ilford product that I can obtain locally is what I will probably use in the future.

Sirius Glass · May 19, 2018

Nodda Duma said:
NH towns’ major source of income is property tax, so yes they squeeze every drop out they can. Nevertheless, I’m still paying 1/3 the taxes to state & local that I was in BFE California...for more house and more property, better income, etc.

But the property taxes can only go up 2% maximum per year after you purchase the property and the weather is nice in southern California.

.

revdoc · May 19, 2018

Poisson Du Jour said:
B&H doesn't charge any US-based tax on export orders to Australia, which is a good thing.
However, from 1st July this year, GST of 10% will be added to everything at the gate on landing here in Australia, which will likely negate any perceived or actual savings from purchasing in the USA. Previously GST was only applied to orders of and over AUD$1,000.

It's not charged at the point of entry. Overseas sellers have to register with the Australian government, collect GST at the time of sale, and send the tax collected to the Australian government at regular intervals. If they fail to register, the Australian government can...

...do nothing. So no doubt some larger online retailers will collect and pay GST, but plenty of others will enjoy the competitive advantage of not including GST in their prices.

Nodda Duma · May 19, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
But the property taxes can only go up 2% maximum per year after you purchase the property and the weather is nice in southern California.

Good for California

Sirius Glass · May 19, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
But the property taxes can only go up 2% maximum per year after you purchase the property and the weather is nice in southern California.

In California the property tax is based on 2% of the selling price and can only be raised a maximum of 2% per year.

.

faberryman · May 19, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
In California the property tax is set at 2% of the selling price and can only be raised a maximum of 2% per year.

Egad! Kind of makes you want to hang on to your property for a while.

pbromaghin · May 19, 2018

faberryman said:
Egad! Kind of makes you want to hang on to your property for a while.

The law was meant to protect senior citizens who were being taxed out of their homes due to the rapid inflation of the mid-late 1970's.

Ai Print · May 19, 2018

It’s 2018 in a market that sees film use being highly niche, I am pretty surprised that there is any roll film that is less than $10 at this point.

I’ll gladly pay what ever they need to charge to keep making the product. Pun intended but think of the bigger picture folks.

TonyB65 · May 20, 2018

Ai Print said:
It’s 2018 in a market that sees film use being highly niche, I am pretty surprised that there is any roll film that is less than $10 at this point.

I’ll gladly pay what ever they need to charge to keep making the product. Pun intended but think of the bigger picture folks.

I consider less than £5 for a roll of high quality film (black and white) as comparatively cheap considering the market. The amount I used to spend on digital gear, and then watch it depreciate rapidly makes shooting film a viable choice on economics alone for me personally.

removed account4 · May 20, 2018

pentaxuser said:
Yes fuel for cars is much more expensive here but just on a point of information. that's about a 120 litre tank. Most cars in the U.K. do not have tanks anything like that size. Do most U.S. cars have tanks that size?

pentaxuser

it was a hatchback peugot didn't have a 30gallon tank

aleckurgan · May 22, 2018

Ai Print said:
It’s 2018 in a market that sees film use being highly niche, I am pretty surprised that there is any roll film that is less than $10 at this point.
I’ll gladly pay what ever they need to charge to keep making the product. Pun intended but think of the bigger picture folks.

Mirko of Adox thinks that film is hugely underpriced these days, and the real prices should be 5-10 times higher. Are you really ready to pay $54,9 plus tax for a roll of T-Max 400?

TonyB65 · May 22, 2018

aleckurgan said:
Mirko of Adox thinks that film is hugely underpriced these days, and the real prices should be 5-10 times higher. Are you really ready to pay $54,9 plus tax for a roll of T-Max 400?

How can film be under-priced to the tune of 5-10 times when Ilford are still making a profit by selling it for between £4 and £7 (depending on the film)?

aleckurgan · May 22, 2018

TonyB65 said:
How can film be under-priced to the tune of 5-10 times when Ilford are still making a profit by selling it for between £4 and £7 (depending on the film)?

Here's his post from one month ago: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...y-it´s-posted-here.128625/page-2#post-2068280

TonyB65 · May 22, 2018

aleckurgan said:
Here's his post from one month ago: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-adox-inkjet-paper-and-why-it´s-posted-here.128625/page-2#post-2068280

Ok, but that still doesn't make any sense in the context it was written, you couldn't run a business and not make any profit. Ilford's sales have increased, so they must be making some profit, albeit not huge. I have no doubt it's a tough market but Ilford and others are managing to be profitable. I'm sure they would like to raise prices but they're in a sensitive niche market where being too expensive runs them the risk of killing the market for themselves. I consider myself a loyal customer to their products, and that's helping to keep them in business as I'm clearly not alone in that. When the day comes that Ilford fold then it's just about over for film, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

RattyMouse · May 22, 2018

aleckurgan said:
Here's his post from one month ago: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-adox-inkjet-paper-and-why-it´s-posted-here.128625/page-2#post-2068280

Apparently Mirko wants the complete destruction of the film industry.

TonyB65 · May 22, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Apparently Mirko wants the complete destruction of the film industry.

5-10 times the current prices would definitely achieve that. The good news is, that from what I'm seeing of good quality used cameras on fleabay, the film market is alive and well. That is unless people think that camera shaped paperweights are the in thing.

RattyMouse · May 22, 2018

TonyB65 said:
5-10 times the current prices would definitely achieve that. The good news is, that from what I'm seeing of good quality used cameras on fleabay, the film market is alive and well. That is unless people think that camera shaped paperweights are the in thing.

Yes, of course. Film prices 5-10 times today's cost would utterly destroy the small but growing interest in film. How anyone who's livelihood depended on film sales can state such insanity is beyond me.

Nodda Duma · May 22, 2018

TonyB65 said:
Ok, but that still doesn't make any sense in the context it was written, you couldn't run a business and not make any profit. Ilford's sales have increased, so they must be making some profit, albeit not huge. I have no doubt it's a tough market but Ilford and others are managing to be profitable. I'm sure they would like to raise prices but they're in a sensitive niche market where being too expensive runs them the risk of killing the market for themselves. I consider myself a loyal customer to their products, and that's helping to keep them in business as I'm clearly not alone in that. When the day comes that Ilford fold then it's just about over for film, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Forget about the profit. Profit could be $0.01. Just because a business is making profit doesn’t mean they can afford to invest in further developments, a real sign of corporate health. Cranking out product doesn’t equal growth. From what I’ve seen on past threads here about their financial reports is, at best, they are managing losses very well with continuously-decreasing sales.

JWMster · May 22, 2018

Generally, some of these film firms are being run as proprietorships. This means you have to add back all officers' salaries to get a view of what real profitability is. And by the way, most firms will seek outside capital to cover fixed (debt) and R&D (equity) costs. Profitability that covers it all relates to "true economic profits" - something only a few firms manage. If Mirko is looking for that in a mature industry and without offering either supply, production or product innovation, then he may be a proprietor and a good operator, but that may be the limit of it. This is not a put down by any means, because industries don't typically see many who can stretch the envelope further. And fairly, it takes a fair amount of innovation, gut and grit just to survive. But the Japanese miracle came from a bunch of folks who found a way to deliver both higher quality and larger volume ...and eventually product feature innovation beneath floors their industries thought competitively possible. It can be done. That it hasn't been done says little.

Billy Axeman · May 22, 2018

Currently Adox is building a shiny new factory in Germany, how about that.
http://www.adox.de/Photo/category/new-factory-building-2017/

Nodda Duma · May 22, 2018

Billy Axeman said:
Currently Adox is building a shiny new factory in Germany, how about that.
http://www.adox.de/Photo/category/new-factory-building-2017/

That’s great! They’re expanding to fill the market. Ilford, Kodak, etc, are shrinking to fit the market. A subtle (not really) difference.

JWMster · May 22, 2018

Billy: If I remember the news, the facility will allow lower cost production. Maybe once the new facility is on line, Mirko's attitude will turn more positive in terms of pricing.

pentaxuser · May 22, 2018

In the context in which it was written I think that Mirko meant that in the equivalent of "real" prices i.e. allowing for inflation we could expect to pay what he quotes and if nothing had changed then if we were paying that we'd still only be paying out of our income what film users were paying out of their income at that time . This is not the same as saying that we should pay this, anymore than it is saying that we should pay say $10,000 for a television today although in real terms compared to the mid 1970s that would be the "real price." I quote televisions as an example. My prices quoted is to illustrate the point I believe he was making and is not to state these are exact prices. A better example and perhaps more pertinent example here, is one quoted several times on Photrio, namely camera prices in real terms

pentaxuser

Film Cost Management

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