Film coating machine (homemade) on Flickr

snowblind · Jan 22, 2008

Indeed. Call him "The Wizard of Oz" ;-)

snowblind · Jan 24, 2008

Here's a question regarding that coating head: would it work to spray the emulsion rather than let it flow?

Photo Engineer · Jan 24, 2008

No, it neither flows nor is sprayed. It is extruded.

PE

Dark Orange · Feb 22, 2008

An update for those people still interested.

Recent efforts have been towards fine-tunining the filminator, in particular, the uneven coating caused by the bearing rumble in the coating roller.

I am pleased to report that over a beer, the builder has revealed that by simply upping the base speed from 2m per minute to 4m, not only has the banding been completely eliminated, but coating thicknesses of 50 micron wet (and apparently 3 when dry) have been consistently achieved.

I will see if I will have time this week to photograph some of the reaction chambers and emulsion preparation equipment he has built.

Dark Orange · Feb 23, 2008

bdial · Feb 23, 2008

Hmm, I never would have thought that cream cheese would be part of the formula

Photo Engineer · Feb 23, 2008

I never would have thought that CLS was a necessary part of a B&W formula. Unless that is the AH layer, in which case it is sure gonna be hard to remove in a B&W process.

PE

PhotoBob · Feb 23, 2008

Wow, this is a very interesting development for film photography.
Sure would like to know whose machine that is and how to contact him.

Dark Orange · Feb 23, 2008

I never would have thought that CLS was a necessary part of a B&W formula.

So that would suggest what, in particular...

Photo Engineer · Feb 23, 2008

Color!

PE

Photo Engineer · Feb 23, 2008

As an afterthought, you need couplers, solvents, about 9 emulsions, sensitzing dyes, a colloid mill, scavengers, acutance dyes, and a few more odds and ends, not to mention all of the formulas to prepare the above.

Reminds me of an old Melaine song "I have a pair of brand new roller skates, you have a brand new key". Of course the song was quite lurid in meaning, but the point applies. Having done every phase of Gold 400, I know all of the above. I also know the coating formula.

PE

Emulsion · Feb 24, 2008

Dark Orange said:
An update for those people still interested.

I will see if I will have time this week to photograph some of the reaction chambers and emulsion preparation equipment he has built.

I and I'm sure others would love to see photos of some of the reaction chambers
and other gear! Please let us know if you can add them to Flikr.

Emulsion.

CRhymer · Feb 24, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
Color!

PE

Or Kodachrome.

Cheers,
Clarence

Dark Orange · Feb 24, 2008

Or Kodachrome.

*hands Clarence a top-shelf stuffed teddy-bear*

Photo Engineer · Feb 24, 2008

Kodachrome is a subset of color.

I wish you good luck coating it. It can be done without all of the couplers and colloid mill, but is going to require the unique processing chemistry. And the design stages of the film are very intensive to get things right.

I hope everything works out well for you.

PE

Photo Engineer · Feb 24, 2008

I was thinking about this.

The cyan (red senstized) layer needs to use a sensitizing dye that is retained during the first developer so that the bottom (cyan) layer can be re-exposed to red light. Since all other dyes are designed to wash out, you need a very particular dye for the cyan layer that will not wash out until the silver is bleached away.

Getting this dye is going to be a major requirement for your project.

PE

filmfabrik · Feb 24, 2008

perhaps he is going to try the original Mannes & Godowsky Process by controlled diffusion without selective re-exposure...

Photo Engineer · Feb 24, 2008

Well, after my initial OMG in response to your post, my second thought was that the coating problems will be even more severe, as the M&G method required very precise diffusion rates and therefore precise thicknesses and hardness.

PE

CRhymer · Feb 24, 2008

l'ours en peluche

Photo Engineer said:
Kodachrome is a subset of color. ....
PE

Indeed! I should have said, "Specifically Kodachrome". I too had a (much less informed) OMG reaction, and almost didn't post. However, they have been pretty much telling us that Kodachrome is their target, so I thought it would move the discussion along. At any rate, I plan to be in Rochester this summer, so I will gladly forfeit the virtual teddy-bear to you.

Cheers,
Clarence

Photo Engineer · Feb 24, 2008

Clarence;

You must stop by!

Ron

Dark Orange · Feb 24, 2008

It can be done without all of the couplers and colloid mill, but is going to require the unique processing chemistry.

Better make sure he dusts off his couplers and colloid mill then.

And the design stages of the film are very intensive to get things right.

To quote Vin Diesel in the movie xXx "I live for this sh!t". (Well, not me, but him - ah stuffit, you know what I mean)

you need a very particular dye for the cyan layer that will not wash out until the silver is bleached away.

That dye is not that difficult to acquire, but to quote the builder... "There are more methods of skinning cats".

I will see if I can get some photos of his preparation gear today or tomorrow.

Photo Engineer · Feb 24, 2008

Please look at US patent # 3,658, 525 which is the process patent for the current Kodachrome (with a few tweaks in the final release). This patent has been abandoned since Fuji and Konica no longer produce Kodachrome type films.

I also have a source for the red sensitizing dye which forms a "J" aggregate of high staying power on the cyan layer emulsion. In fact, I have 900 mg of it left from my own emulsion work.

I don't want you to skin any cats. It would be so inhumane.

PE

Dark Orange · Feb 25, 2008

I suspect it is the cat skinning he is interested in rather than the end product.

Emulsion · Mar 1, 2008

Dark Orange,

Have you had any luck taking additional photos? I'm very interested in the reaction vessels/kettles and lab gear.

Thanks from,
Emulsion.

Dark Orange · Mar 1, 2008

My apologies, I have been called away for work and won't be back for a few weeks.

The builder would prefer his preparation equipment to be shown when it is all completed, so it can be seen as a process rather than as disjointed items.

I will keep you posted.

Film coating machine (homemade) on Flickr

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