Film Camera Recommendation

laroygreen · Jan 2, 2012

I have to say, the Nikon FM3A (all black), Leica R5 and the Contax S2b take my pick for best looking slr cameras ... maybe add one of those to my long term wishlist as they a pretty expensive (the Leica is surprisingly cheap, but as always, they get you with the lens cost).

The Nikon FG looks really good! Its super cheap and for 50.00 I could get a really nice working copy (quick search on eBay). I think this may be the one !

One last request! Can anyone point me to a good (and cheap) Nikon 24/28mm (large aperture, >= f2.8) on eBay (I prefer buy-it now or one where the auction is ending soon)? I see a few lenses, but I can't tell which lenses are for modern Nikons and which are for old SLR cameras. I know with Minolta you look for MC/MD, same thing for Canon. Not sure about Nikon though. If I can find a good lens for Nikon, I'll go with the FG!

Thanks for all the help guys and the overwhelmingly warm welcome to APUG!

Les Sarile · Jan 2, 2012

A Nikkor for the FG has to be AI, AIS or AI'd. Series E lenses are the more cost effective versions. Check out KEH too as they do offer money back and their BGN is usually a most excellent anywhere else.

Sundowner · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
I have to say, the Nikon FM3A (all black), Leica R5 and the Contax S2b take my pick for best looking slr cameras ... maybe add one of those to my long term wishlist as they a pretty expensive (the Leica is surprisingly cheap, but as always, they get you with the lens cost).

The Nikon FG looks really good! Its super cheap and for 50.00 I could get a really nice working copy (quick search on eBay). I think this may be the one !

One last request! Can anyone point me to a good (and cheap) Nikon 24/28mm (large aperture, >= f2.8) on eBay (I prefer buy-it now or one where the auction is ending soon)? I see a few lenses, but I can't tell which lenses are for modern Nikons and which are for old SLR cameras. I know with Minolta you look for MC/MD, same thing for Canon. Not sure about Nikon though. If I can find a good lens for Nikon, I'll go with the FG!

Thanks for all the help guys and the overwhelmingly warm welcome to APUG!

There's a silver model FG on KEH right now for about $30. Seriously. Here's a link: Dead Link Removed

I got away from eBay lenses and instead went to KEH for that, as well...mostly because they have a return policy that's not questionable.

Sundowner · Jan 2, 2012

Here's a lens: Dead Link Removed

I can't believe someone actually listened to me...I'm seriously not used to that. I love this forum!

Sundowner · Jan 2, 2012

And a 28mm, same price: Dead Link Removed

KEH's bargain grade is okay on lenses. It sounds bad, but you have to realize that "Excellent" is only one grade over "bargain" in their books. I've bought both...excellent lenses certainly look better (which you don't care about), but the bargain grades are perfectly workable. If you have any questions, also, just call them.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jan 2, 2012

Go pick up the $50 FX-3 Super 2000 in the FS Classified ads here. Then snap up some good Yashica or great Contax Zeiss glass with the remaining $450.

dhosten · Jan 2, 2012

Pick up a Nikkor 28/2.8 AI-S manual focus. I am very happy with mine.

baachitraka · Jan 2, 2012

You may pick up OM-1 or OM-1n with a 28mm zuiko. Street photography may not need metering for every single shot.

Just set the meter for one shot and the rest is just focus and shoot. If you are little concerned about the correct exposure than OM-2 or OM-2n.

+1 for the view finder in OM-1(n) so always recommended.

A winder/motor drive will make you happy, but it may not be compact.

CGW · Jan 2, 2012

Les Sarile said:
Although there is not much size difference between the FG (490g), F3 (760g) and FM3A (570g), there is a substantial weight difference between them. The other Nikons (FE, FE2, FM, FM2, FA) are similar in size and weight.

Sorry, Les, but your police line-up shot is a bit misleading. Apart from the apparently slight weight difference, the FG really is a tiny camera compared to the FM/FE variants and the F3.

Aristophanes · Jan 2, 2012

You can get a top-shape Pentax ME Super or Super Program with a 28 and 50 for less than $200, CLA'd (via Eric). Small, light, exceptional, especially the metering. With the extra $$ you save think of all the film and processing you can afford. These are very unassuming cameras that are classic SLR styles. The ME Super with the 28/3.5 is actually smaller than my Yashica Electro GSN.;; it's pocketable. Also quite rugged and very good VF's.

IMHO, having tried all brands of cameras, all glass is good. A few duds, a few wowzers, but all brands made very good glass.

Sundowner · Jan 2, 2012

Yes, there's a noticeable difference between the F3 and the FG...especially the weight. I've got a few Nikon bodies, but I'm about ten seconds from picking up an FG just to have one. I think it'd be a great lightweight body to carry, and it would give me interchangeable lenses...something I'm lacking in my QL 17 and Rollei 35. I'd love to have a Leica CL, but funds won't let me afford the glass for it...and I'm also saving for large format equipment, which I also need to buy cheaply.

Anyway, yeah, the FG is a tiny little thing. Tiny is good when you're walking.

Les Sarile · Jan 2, 2012

CGW said:
Sorry, Les, but your police line-up shot is a bit misleading. Apart from the apparently slight weight difference, the FG really is a tiny camera compared to the FM/FE variants and the F3.

Misleading as in it would benefit me to adjust camera angles in favor of one over the other for some unknown reason? Just how tiny did you think the FG is? The FG just feels tiny due to the disparity in weight particularly compared to an F3. Of course you can download the manuals so you can verify the absolute dimensions listed below.

FG - 136 X 87.5 X 54
FM - 142 X 89.5 X 60.5
FM3A - 142 X 90 X 58
FE - 142 X 89.5 X 57.5
FA - 142.5 X 92 X 64.5
OM-1 - 136 X 83 X 50
MX - 135.5 X 82.5 X 49.5

Perhaps a more "technical" representation would be better since I do have them available and they are all so photogenic . . .

Larger version -> Cameras By Name

laroygreen · Jan 2, 2012

Wow ... you own all those cameras?

lesm · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
but considering I have to buy audio equipment to conduct interviews (you think photography is expensive? Not compared to video and audio equipment it isn't), so overall, wherever I can save some money, I'll take that route (eBay - FTW!)..

If it's of any use to you, Laroy, I've got a Sony MZ-R70 minidisk recorder you're welcome to have and I could toss in a couple of used disks. I don't use them anymore. If you'd like them, just PM me with your address and I'll post 'em off.

Les

Les Sarile · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
Wow ... you own all those cameras?

Sorry but I am a late starter. Part of my immersion . . .

fstop · Jan 2, 2012

CGW said:
Sorry, Les, but your police line-up shot is a bit misleading. Apart from the apparently slight weight difference, the FG really is a tiny camera compared to the FM/FE variants and the F3.

and the F3 is tiny compared to the F2 especially when you put the motor drive and battery on the F2,forget the urban legand about driving nails, the F2 set up like this can drive railroad spikes.

The real small Nikon is the EM

laroygreen · Jan 2, 2012

Not sure if I should start a new thread, but this is sorta related!

When metering with an old SLR, if the meter indicator is very simple, such as a green dot that lights up when 18% grey is properly exposed, but I know that my scene is say 1 stop above or below 18% grey, could I turn the ISO knob to a lower ISO (for 1 stop above 18%) or a higher ISO (for 1 stop above 18%) when metering additional similar scenes (rather than having to adjust my shutter speed/aperture to hit 18% grey and then adjusting to 1 stop below or above that)? Not sure if I'm clear (probably not), but hopefully I am.

Also, say I decide to meter something that is 2 stop above 18% grey as 18% grey, do I need to do any special adjustments when developing and would I notice any ill effects such as additional grain?

Also, what good books/videos can you guys recommend that covers the gamut of colour film photography? I plan to eventually develop my own C41 film, and I already have most of the equipment required (constant temperature bath, etc.). I also want to get into colour printing of film.

Aristophanes · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
Not sure if I should start a new thread, but this is sorta related!

When metering with an old SLR, if the meter indicator is very simple, such as a green dot that lights up when 18% grey is properly exposed, but I know that my scene is say 1 stop above or below 18% grey, could I turn the ISO knob to a lower ISO (for 1 stop above 18%) or a higher ISO (for 1 stop above 18%) when metering additional similar scenes (rather than having to adjust my shutter speed/aperture to hit 18% grey and then adjusting to 1 stop below or above that)? Not sure if I'm clear (probably not), but hopefully I am.

I can answer this as I was just re-reading my manual for my Minolta X-500. The manual says that adjusting the ISO dial is what is done to vary the exposure +1, -1 etc. So if you feel in a situation the subject requires more exposure but you are correct on the aperture (aesthetics or camera limitations) and the shutter speed is where it needs to be (handheld, for example), then adjusting the ISO is how one alters the exposure value from the camera's metered indicator light.

It's funny: I shoot Pentax manual focus cameras where there is no auto-exposure lock (AE-L) control (ME Super, Super Program, MX), and Minolta (X-500, X-570) where there is AE-L but no EV dial. It's interesting to remember that these were the design and marketing differences between the brands.

It's important to note that altering the EV dial is really a shortcut devised by camera makers to alter the metered ISO. It's the one variable that can be gamed without changing the desired aesthetic of the aperture (DOF usually) and shutter speed away from the handheld comfort zone.

BrianShaw · Jan 2, 2012

You can change the ISO speed, or many Nikons (and probably others) have an exposure compensation feature... so you can just set that to 1, +2, -1, -2, etc. -- usually at 1/3 stop increments. No change in processing required. With match needle or most of the LCD displays you can see how far from "average" you are in the meter reading.

Sundowner · Jan 2, 2012

fstop said:
The real small Nikon is the EM

I thought these two were the same basic platform, with the FG having less no-choice automation. :confused:

Sundowner · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
Not sure if I should start a new thread, but this is sorta related!

When metering with an old SLR, if the meter indicator is very simple, such as a green dot that lights up when 18% grey is properly exposed, but I know that my scene is say 1 stop above or below 18% grey, could I turn the ISO knob to a lower ISO (for 1 stop above 18%) or a higher ISO (for 1 stop above 18%) when metering additional similar scenes (rather than having to adjust my shutter speed/aperture to hit 18% grey and then adjusting to 1 stop below or above that)? Not sure if I'm clear (probably not), but hopefully I am.

Also, say I decide to meter something that is 2 stop above 18% grey as 18% grey, do I need to do any special adjustments when developing and would I notice any ill effects such as additional grain?

Also, what good books/videos can you guys recommend that covers the gamut of colour film photography? I plan to eventually develop my own C41 film, and I already have most of the equipment required (constant temperature bath, etc.). I also want to get into colour printing of film.

I usually adjust stops with the shutter, because the shutter speed doesn't affect composition (EDIT: unless you're shooting motion ) and it's easier for me to adjust than the ISO.

If you're adjusting the exposure, then yes, you could need to make adjustments in the processing of the film. I would suggest that you check out a couple of good darkroom primers, as they can explain in more detail than is possible here. I would suggest Barnbaum's Art Of Photography, The Negative by Adams, and I've found Picker's Zone VI Workshop to be good as well. Read them in that order, as well.

Can't help you on color...I've never had a taste for it and don't really find it appealing. When I want color, I paint.

Chan Tran · Jan 2, 2012

With a manual camera that the meter only valid at the 0 setting I always zero it (center the needle, the 0 led light up etc..) and then change the shutter speed and/or aperture to increase of decrease exposure. I found using the exposure compensation dial is very inconvenient besides most manual cameras don't have the exposure compensation setting.

Aristophanes · Jan 2, 2012

Chan Tran said:
With a manual camera that the meter only valid at the 0 setting I always zero it (center the needle, the 0 led light up etc..) and then change the shutter speed and/or aperture to increase of decrease exposure. I found using the exposure compensation dial is very inconvenient besides most manual cameras don't have the exposure compensation setting.

BUt often you cannot change SS because you'll fall below safe handheld (1/60) speed, and you may be at your lens limit with regards to aperture, or for aesthetic composition reasons aperture change is off-limits. At that point EV via ISO is all that's left. As I wrote earlier, the standalone EV dial is more of a shortcut to ISO adjustment than the other 2 of the triangle. Of course one must be wary of the exposure latitude of film. From the evolution of my camera's the EV dial started as an ISO shortcut, but then on some models could be changed to alter SS or AV on electronic cameras (and digital; my DSLR allows for either SS or Av priority for EV with ISO handled separately).

Just going to the OP's question, you can adjust your ISO per shot for the desired EV compensation. That's what my Minolta manual says to do as it has no EV dial. My Pentax model of the same era has an EV dial which effectively alters the exposure by changing the ISO setting from the metered reading. It's a human derived, subjective override.

Newt_on_Swings · Jan 2, 2012

Sundowner said:
I thought these two were the same basic platform, with the FG having less no-choice automation. :confused:

I think the EM is a bit lighter, but the FG gives you the ability for manual. In the EM you have to trick it by switching your ISO dial to change shutter speeds.

The EM is not a bad camera, the wind on is smoother than my F3 believe it or not. This is something even the Olympus OM's are lacking in. But thats just nit picking, klunky wind or not.

laroygreen · Jan 2, 2012

Ok, so isn't EV and ISO settings just a way to manually "trick" the camera meter that 18% grey isn't what its factory set defacto is?

So, if I'm limited by shutter speed and aperture, and I'm obviously limited by the sensitivity of my chosen film, wouldn't the ISO/EV not really have any impact in that situation? All I'm essentially doing is telling the camera that I want +/- this amount to be 18% grey (I am strictly speaking about simple meters that just have an indicator to say your exposure is good). I still only have 3 things that can affect exposure (ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speed).

The reason I asked, is that on a modern DSLR, you have a scale bar, that shows you how much over/under you are in relation to 18% grey. With older SLRs, I suspect you wouldn't know how much over/under you are, so you would essentially zero the meter on whatever you are metering on, and then increase/decrease to suit the true tonality(?) of what you are metering.

I know its been said in this thread that film has a wide latitude and can tolerate over/under exposure by multiple stops, but this question is mainly out of curiosity (plus I like to meter properly as best as I can just to avoid issues down the road).

Does that sound correct, or am I missing something?

Film Camera Recommendation

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