Film Camera Recommendation

MattKing · Jan 1, 2012

I would recommend one of the myriad Canon EOS film bodies with an EF lens lens that meets your requirements.

With a fast 28mm or 24mm lens and one of the cheap 28mm-90mm kit lenses in your pocket as a supplement, you could cover almost everything, have the option of auto-focus and matrix and other metering choices and, at least with respect to the body and the kit lens, not have to worry much about the cost.

If you would like two Rebel 2000 bodies, two BP200 grips and a 28mm-90mm kit lens for $150 plus shipping, just send me a pm .

Sundowner · Jan 1, 2012

laroygreen said:
For me, it seems like the fastest way of working, and based on what I normally shoot, I've never really had any issues and its served me well. I don't claim to be an exposure guru, so any advice (please no flame wars!) would be nice, and ultimately, good exposures and good focus are my primary concern as we all know that film is rather expensive, especially if you have to import it yourself!

If you have a good work routine set up, then go with it. No explanations required.

With that said, here's my <rather uneducated> advice, based on how I work when out-and-about.

1. Wide lenses allow hyperfocal focusing, which makes the focus errors pretty non-existent.
2. Exposure...heh...I totally SUCK at guessing exposures. I'm getting better, but the smartest things that I've done are to 1) practice a lot, 2) preset my shutter with the light, not with the shots that may or may not show up, and 3) find a film/developer combination that gives me the look that I want and allows a little bit of latitude for my bad exposure guesses.

Also, carry a small light meter. My budget doesn't allow for one, but I use the BeeCam light meter app on my phone, and it's actually pretty damn good (tested against the meters on my Pentax and Nikon).

laroygreen · Jan 1, 2012

MattKing - I would prefer a camera that didn't look "modern". I don't want anyone to have to guess if its a recent camera and if its valuable. One look at it should instantly tell them "piece of junk" (although it isn't). Thank you for the generous offer though.

Sundowner - I'd rather not use an external light meter. No idea if it would slow me down or not, but I don't think I would be comfortable having to use one before I take a picture.

Les Sarile - Rest assured, I aint no Steve McCurry ... best description for my photography is "Seldom competent, often times worse" (a quote from the BBC).

Chan Tran · Jan 1, 2012

I have found among the cameras that I own. Let me use my Nikon F5 as a camera with a metering system similar to those in the DSLRs. The Nikon F3, Nikon FM, Pentax KX is as accurate as the F5 although they don't have matrix or spot. The Minolta XD-11 is a bit worse but not very much. The Olympus OM-2 is up to 2 stops off at certain light level. The Minolta SRT-101 is about the same as the OM-2. But there are only a few older cameras ( cameras that don't look like current DSLR's) that have spot meter like the Olympus OM-2s or OM-4. I think it's better to use a handheld spot meter.

Les Sarile · Jan 1, 2012

laroygreen said:
Les Sarile - Rest assured, I aint no Steve McCurry ... best description for my photography is "Seldom competent, often times worse" (a quote from the BBC).

This is merely to point out that C41 film has so much latitude that you shouldn't worry about it. Also, that even with narrow latitude Kodachrome, you don't need much technology to properly expose it. After all, even the Argus brick was intended to use slide film.

tkamiya · Jan 1, 2012

I've been finding, general population often cannot tell SLR cameras apart - digital, analog, expensive, cheap, new, old, etc, etc, etc. If you think bringing a DLSR will make you a target, then I'd doubt you are that much safer bringing in older film SLR. They'd be studying you from afar anyway. They might see a 'professional looking' camera and see money. Absence of LCD on the back or the fact it is scratched up won't be noticeable until he gets it away from you. Having a cheap camera will less your monetary loss but not necessary lessen your bodily harm.

People can; however, tell P&S cameras and recognize them as cheap stuff. How about getting some of those? Plus, please don't go alone. I don't know the area you are going into or the people who live there but if hair on back of your head is already standing up, that's sign enough. I'd be careful.

Sundowner · Jan 1, 2012

laroygreen said:
I'd rather not use an external light meter. No idea if it would slow me down or not, but I don't think I would be comfortable having to use one before I take a picture.

Understandable. I use my phone sparingly as well. Learn to guess accurately, then.

dhosten · Jan 1, 2012

laroygreen said:
MattKing - I would prefer a camera that didn't look "modern". I don't want anyone to have to guess if its a recent camera and if its valuable. One look at it should instantly tell them "piece of junk" (although it isn't). Thank you for the generous offer though.
Sundowner - I'd rather not use an external light meter. No idea if it would slow me down or not, but I don't think I would be comfortable having to use one before I take a picture.
Les Sarile - Rest assured, I aint no Steve McCurry ... best description for my photography is "Seldom competent, often times worse" (a quote from the BBC).

If you are in Trinidad or Jamaica, you are a very brave photographer indeed.
I would second a few recommendations I've seen so far. K1000 or similar is sufficiently amateur looking that it is unthreatening, and Does Not look like it is worth stealing. Nikon AF35 is good, or AF600 if something wider is needed as a backup body. Both looking like vacation cameras and are capable of good images. I happen to really dislike the shutter feel of vertical travel metal shutters, preferring cloth horizontal ones instead. But shutters don't take pictures per se, and that is just a personal thing. I know in Bdos there is good photographic resources, which you might to look into. One last suggestion is any SLR with built-in flash, which always looks like a toy, so is probably not high on a steal list.

Les Sarile · Jan 1, 2012

I don't know if you have ever compared the latitude of film and digi since you say you used both, but here is a simple comparison that you can verify yourself. I don't know what digi you have, but I have also tested other brands and they all pretty much are very similar in range. Reference a "good exposure" and simply increase shutter time till the scene is clipped and you will see that the new Kodak Portra 400 goes on and on. And even then you can apply post to recover some of it still.

Link to larger version -> Latitude comparison

lesm · Jan 1, 2012

The way you do your forward planning will be of more consequence than the camera you use, I would suggest. Some years ago I worked on a current affairs program at a radio station and had to do the occasional interview in known crime areas (nothing like some areas in the Carribean, but hairy enough). The reason I never had a problem I attribute largely to my producer who helped me plan each project. If I could pass on some of her advice to you I'd suggest you set out a summary of the project, a shooting schedule, the people/areas/scenarios you want to photograph etc., put it all on paper and make several copies. To get your shooting schedule you'll want to set it all up beforehand, rather than turning up unannounced with a camera. Spend a day or two in the area, buy something from the locals, even if it's just a coffee and sandwich, talk to people and if possible find out who controls the area and go and talk to them. Unless you're a crook yourself I've found crims are usually willing to be moderately accommodating if you explain clearly what you want (give them a copy of your plan) and talk about what's in it for them, ie a chance to tell their story to someone who has no bias. You're no threat to them and they have no reason to get heavy with you. If they give you their blessing, they'll pass the word around and you should be able to do your work unmolested, in which case it doesn't matter what camera you use. If they turn you down, well you have to decide whether to continue or not and no amount of playing around with cameras will be of any help to you. Of course, I say all this from the safety of my chair in relatively placid South Australia. You will know whether what I've said would work in your part of the world.

Good for you, mate. These stories need to be documented and the disadvantaged need a voice. Best of luck.

Les

Sundowner · Jan 1, 2012

Good advice, there. Thanks for posting that, Les.

Newt_on_Swings · Jan 2, 2012

You can really use any small SLR system you prefer with a F2.8 or faster lens. Maybe a 50 f1.4 and 24 f2/2.8 combo. Most are quite affordable. No flash. I would suggest a OM-PC/40, they go for like $40 with 50mm lens, black, with black rubberized exterior (good grip for handling), aperture priority, small, big viewfinder. Or Olympus RC, tiny, aperture priority, 42mm F2.8 lens, extra frames since you dont need much leader, you can palm it.

The main issue as other have pointed out is that even before they see your camera, they see you.

Photographing crime as you intend to is quite dangerous. I don't think any criminal would want his mug in anyones camera while doing something illegal be it a film or digital camera, big or small. Some are hopped up on so many drugs just approaching them may set them off. Ive encountered this before a few times.

General tips: Try not to look to much like a cop, dont carry anything you wouldn't mind losing. Play things cool, but stand up for yourself when need be. Get to know someone in the area, a deli owner or the like. learn to zone focus and shoot from either hanging from your neck, or with a smaller camera from your palm or rested on your side/hip. Shoot and keep moving, and try not to hesitate on shots where you stop a few paces later to turn and shoot. You can pretend to shoot things to the side or behind them with the wider angle lenses, they are none the wiser.

Good luck

Leigh Youdale · Jan 2, 2012

Back to The Original Post

laroygreen said:
Good day,

Short story: I want a small film camera, with good wide angle lenses, built-in light meter available and must be easy to focus through the viewfinder.

Long story: I have a project that I'm working on this year that will require me to do some street shooting in a few poorer communities here, and I wanted to use a film camera primarily because I think I would be more comfortable using an old film camera than my digital slr camera (I normally don't shoot any public street scenes, mainly portrait sessions at private locations). I might be paranoid, but when I visit certain areas with my DSLR, I feel like I have a huge bullseye painted on my back as pretty much any digital slr screams "I have money, please rob me" (which I don't!).

I don't plan to stalk the streets, and will have the camera in plain view at all times, so its important that the camera meets the following requirements:

- Ability to take wide angle lens (24mm - 28mm). This was one of the reasons I decided against rangefinders, as using external viewfinders isn't appealing (plus they tend to be expensive).
- Is easy to focus!
- Has a built-in, usable and fairly accurate (in common situations) light meter.
- Fairly cheap used, with my budget being around 500 USD.
- Doesn't look too professional/modern, but is still functional.

Thanks for the help!

There's been a lot of response to this and I may have missed seeing one option in amongst all the recommendations for old SLR's.
I wouldn't dismiss all rangefinders out of hand. I have a Bessa R4A and it would seem to meet most of your criteria.

* It's small and light. It can be easily made less noticeable than any SLR. The lenses are smaller than SLR lenses.
* A lot of people who don't know cameras think it's "old" and don't pay attention to it. It's not hard to conceal it under a jacket but still have it ready for quick access and use.
* TTL metering is accurate.
* The viewfinder has frames for 21mm, 25mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm which more than covers your preferred range and focus requirements. You don't need an external viewfinder.
* With an LTM to M adaptor you can choose from a large array of good, fast prime lenses.
* The AE feature makes for fast and accurate shooting but can be switched to manual if you prefer.

Now, it probably won't meet your budget requirements but from a feature/technical standpoint I suggest it bears some consideration.

laroygreen · Jan 2, 2012

Thanks for all the safety tips ... I grew up in said communities, and I can fit in, and the only time that I've actually been robbed (several failed attempted robberies though) was when I went to Pakistan for a few months (by men armed with AK47s - Rather exciting ), and I was singled out because well, I certainly didn't fit in there.

Also, as I said, I'm just there to photograph how people make a living, so I plan to hang out with fishermen, market vendors, farmers, etc. I don't plan on interacting with any gang members or photograph any crime scenes or criminal activity. Also, the crux of my documentary will be interviews with victims of violent crimes, where I can easily control the environment. The only potentially dangerous part is getting those establishing shots to go with the narrative/interview.

Good tips though, and I do plan to get in touch with someone from a community before I go to shoot anything and I will certainly keep safety as my number one priority (and I'll just flat out avoid certain places).

I really wanted the Bessa R4M to work for me, but it just isn't as affordable. At around $1500 for lens and camera body, it might not be that much on its own, but considering I have to buy audio equipment to conduct interviews (you think photography is expensive? Not compared to video and audio equipment it isn't), so overall, wherever I can save some money, I'll take that route (eBay - FTW!). Granted, shooting film isn't that cheap either, but the cost adds up over time, usually not upfront, which I can manage. Maybe if I see a good deal or something, but given that they are current cameras and tend to be highly regarded, it is unlikely.

guitstik · Jan 2, 2012

If you like the Bessa's then I would go for either a T with no viewfinder but it meters with lights on top or the R that does have the viewfinder and meter. Either of those with a Russian wide would be a good choice for being inconspicuous.

Rol_Lei Nut · Jan 2, 2012

guitstik said:
If you like the Bessa's then I would go for either a T with no viewfinder but it meters with lights on top or the R that does have the viewfinder and meter. Either of those with a Russian wide would be a good choice for being inconspicuous.

I thought the Jupiter 12 (35mm) was incompatible with the Bessas because of its protruding rear element.
That leaves a quite rare and *very* slow Soviet 28mm and the even rarer and very expensive 20mm...

The C/V 25mm is supposed to be quite good and also cheap.

Steve Smith · Jan 2, 2012

Sundowner said:
Here's an even cheaper Nikon option that will get you shooting some great pictures: the little-loved FG.

I love mine!

Les Sarile said:
This is merely to point out that C41 film has so much latitude that you shouldn't worry about it.

I agree. If you are shooting outside in daylight, then you should be able to set the exposure in advance. Even if you are a stop out either way, it shouldn't be a problem.

Steve.

dhosten · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
Thanks for all the safety tips ... I grew up in said communities, and I can fit in, and the only time that I've actually been robbed (several failed attempted robberies though) was when I went to Pakistan for a few months (by men armed with AK47s - Rather exciting ), and I was singled out because well, I certainly didn't fit in there.

Also, as I said, I'm just there to photograph how people make a living, so I plan to hang out with fishermen, market vendors, farmers, etc. I don't plan on interacting with any gang members or photograph any crime scenes or criminal activity. Also, the crux of my documentary will be interviews with victims of violent crimes, where I can easily control the environment. The only potentially dangerous part is getting those establishing shots to go with the narrative/interview.

Good tips though, and I do plan to get in touch with someone from a community before I go to shoot anything and I will certainly keep safety as my number one priority (and I'll just flat out avoid certain places).

I really wanted the Bessa R4M to work for me, but it just isn't as affordable. At around $1500 for lens and camera body, it might not be that much on its own, but considering I have to buy audio equipment to conduct interviews (you think photography is expensive? Not compared to video and audio equipment it isn't), so overall, wherever I can save some money, I'll take that route (eBay - FTW!). Granted, shooting film isn't that cheap either, but the cost adds up over time, usually not upfront, which I can manage. Maybe if I see a good deal or something, but given that they are current cameras and tend to be highly regarded, it is unlikely.

Hey Laroy,
Good luck with the project, looks like you are pretty well sorted out. Don't forget a Nikon L35AW, or Canon Sureshot WP-1, a $10-30 backup option, as those might be handy if you get right in with the fishing guys. I photographed some Flying Fish in Grenada a while back and it was great until my OM-3 fell in the water. The next time I was on Grand Anse photographing fisherfolk I had a much more water resistant option available.
Sounds like a fun project and I'd love to see results once you have it completed.
p.s. I forgot to mention the Ricoh GR-1 and its siblings as suitable, high quality wide angle alternate cameras which would be unobtrusive. I would look for one in Ugly condition, but as long as the lens is clean and the shutter works, that's even better for you.

laroygreen · Jan 2, 2012

I do plan on trying to go out to sea, but not in any rough weather, and I've done it before with my DSLR and it was fine, though not with flying fish

SO many choices with no clear consensus (people seem to prefer Nikon though) that I'll probably have to just resort to seeing what the best deals are on eBay (you can tell some of these sellers have no clue based on the spartan descriptions, so a big selling point for me is pictures and good description about shutter speeds, working meter, light seals, etc.). But, I am a lot more knowledgeable about 70s-80s SLRs than I was yesterday, very happy !

As for the metering, thanks for the help, and maybe I am being overly concerned but I guess that is what happens when you have lcd screens and histograms

My project may take more than a year to complete, so I'll be in it for the long run, and it has many aspects to it. I dont intend to win any awards, but it is just something I feel compelled to do.

guitstik · Jan 2, 2012

Rol_Lei Nut said:
I thought the Jupiter 12 (35mm) was incompatible with the Bessas because of its protruding rear element.
That leaves a quite rare and *very* slow Soviet 28mm and the even rarer and very expensive 20mm...

The C/V 25mm is supposed to be quite good and also cheap.

I have the Jupiter 12 35/2,8 that I use on my Nikon S2 and my Bessa R with an LTM/Contax adapter and I haven't experienced any problems. Mind you tho, the Contax adapter set me back $200 on eBay. If I'm not mistaken, the Bessa T is a Contax mount, someone correct me if I'm wrong. The R is an LTM I know for fact because that is what my Industar 50 is. This is a top rated seller of Russian camera equipment, check this lens out 260922460333 (item #).

mdarnton · Jan 2, 2012

The suggestion is good, so I'm going to second it: Nikon FG with 24/2.8. That's the combo that I've been running around town with for the last few weeks.

It's one of the nicest handling cameras I've ever had: smaller and lighter than any other SLR, BUT, and this is big, it has a handgrip bump on it that makes it very easy to handle. I had OM1s for ten years, and they do not handle well, all the other things that they are aside. I use an old-fashioned thin strap wrapped around my right wrist a couple of times and leave the camera hanging at my side by my fingertips. If you think chrome is more invisible than black, chrome will save you $10 off the ridiculously cheap $50 a good one costs.

The camera's dirt cheap, easy to replace if something happens to it, it takes a full line of easily available lenses, even a lot of current ones work. It has aperture priority auto, which I use, or manual and program, which I don't. There's not much to go wrong in the camera, and if it does, you throw it away and buy another.

I can't believe people have suggested things like F3+winder (and a wheelbarrow, perhaps?), or any old Canon--possibly the largest and heaviest 35mm film cameras ever made, with a now-obscure lens mount.

BrianShaw · Jan 2, 2012

F3+MD4+gym membership is the best preventative health program one can subscribe to!

Les Sarile · Jan 2, 2012

laroygreen said:
I do plan on trying to go out to sea, but not in any rough weather, and I've done it before with my DSLR and it was fine, though not with flying fish

SO many choices with no clear consensus (people seem to prefer Nikon though) that I'll probably have to just resort to seeing what the best deals are on eBay (you can tell some of these sellers have no clue based on the spartan descriptions, so a big selling point for me is pictures and good description about shutter speeds, working meter, light seals, etc.). But, I am a lot more knowledgeable about 70s-80s SLRs than I was yesterday, very happy !

As for the metering, thanks for the help, and maybe I am being overly concerned but I guess that is what happens when you have lcd screens and histograms

My project may take more than a year to complete, so I'll be in it for the long run, and it has many aspects to it. I dont intend to win any awards, but it is just something I feel compelled to do.

Well there most certainly are a lot to choose from so here are some pictures from my own to help you do that . . .

Link to larger version -> Suggestions

Pentax ME Super - Smallest manual/aperture priority. If you want the lightest setup, this and M series 28mm lens is it.
Olympus OM-4T - Next smallest with manual/aperture priority and only one with spot metering which is as accurate as my Sekonic 758. Don't let the size fool you as it is of pro quality build.
Nikon FM3A - Smallest Nikon with manual/aperture priority and the only camera ever with all shutter speeds available when batteries are drained. Newest of the bunch and likely in better shape.
Pentax LX - Smallest interchangeable viewfinder with manual/aperture priority and most shutter speeds available when batteries drained. Build quality is second to none and line tested for weather proofing.
Nikon F3 - Pro Nikon with interchangeable viewfinder with manual/aperture priority. It may not be much larger then the others but weighs a bit more then the FM3A. Used by NASA.
Canon F-1N - Pro Canon with interchangeable viewfinder with manual/aperture priority. Clearly biggest and heaviest and can be used for self defense.

The Pentax and Olympus both have off the film metering and are ranked as having the most sensitive unassisted meters ever. The LX can meter a scene hours long.

Good luck choosing one . . .

CGW · Jan 2, 2012

mdarnton said:
The suggestion is good, so I'm going to second it: Nikon FG with 24/2.8. That's the combo that I've been running around town with for the last few weeks.

It's one of the nicest handling cameras I've ever had: smaller and lighter than any other SLR, BUT, and this is big, it has a handgrip bump on it that makes it very easy to handle. I had OM1s for ten years, and they do not handle well, all the other things that they are aside. I use an old-fashioned thin strap wrapped around my right wrist a couple of times and leave the camera hanging at my side by my fingertips. If you think chrome is more invisible than black, chrome will save you $10 off the ridiculously cheap $50 a good one costs.

The camera's dirt cheap, easy to replace if something happens to it, it takes a full line of easily available lenses, even a lot of current ones work. It has aperture priority auto, which I use, or manual and program, which I don't. There's not much to go wrong in the camera, and if it does, you throw it away and buy another.

I can't believe people have suggested things like F3+winder (and a wheelbarrow, perhaps?), or any old Canon--possibly the largest and heaviest 35mm film cameras ever made, with a now-obscure lens mount.

It's a sweet little camera and the smallest SLR Nikon made. Suspect the FG often gets confused with its dumb kid brother, the EM, and ignored as incapable. Good viewfinder. LED meter readout(great for lowlight/night shooting). TTL flash metering. Well-made(full metal chassis).Giveaway priced and usually in remarkably good shape since most were "birthday" cameras that saw only occasional use. Makes a great, highly portable kit when coupled with a 50/1.8E and 100/2.8E.

Les Sarile · Jan 2, 2012

Although there is not much size difference between the FG (490g), F3 (760g) and FM3A (570g), there is a substantial weight difference between them. The other Nikons (FE, FE2, FM, FM2, FA) are similar in size and weight.

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