Film camera prices: Going up or down?

Oldtimer Jay · Oct 28, 2007

Hi All,

I am sure most reactions to this question will be highly speculative, but as a guy with GAS it is a relevant question. What I know for sure is that I bought a Minolta Maxxum 7 and a Nikon F100 about 6 months ago because they were so "affordable". Now I could buy each of them for about 10% to 20% less. On the other hand, the price of a nice Maxxum 9 from KEH is about 20% more than 6 months ago.
I wonder if in a year or so everyone who wants a Maxxum 9 will have one and others from estate sales or collectors who have finally gotten that truly mint example they were looking for will increase the supply and cause the price to drop. Or not.
I am a bit unhappy that I spent more than I had to on some cameras I bought in the past year, but also unhappy that I might have to spend more a year from now to get the Maxxum 9 I am interested in now.
However, I would really kick myself if three years from now my numerous cameras (none of which are true collectables) are worth on half their current value. I would also really kick myself if Maxxum 9s or Fuji 6x9s, which I don't own but want, cost double what they do now.
It seems like there are almost as many unpredictable variables involved in guessing about this short and medium term valuation of cameras as predicting whether a stock will go up or down.
Maybe though, there is someone out there with enough understanding of the megatrends in this very limited market to make an educated guess about the market in film cameras in the coming months years and decades. I am interested in your thoughts...

Jay L

david b · Oct 28, 2007

It seems the "top of the line" cameras are increasing or at least holding steady but the lower lines or older cameras are dropping.

Just have a look at Hasselblads.

Uncle Bill · Oct 28, 2007

Could also be seasonal too.

MP_Wayne · Oct 28, 2007

I have purchased a considerable quantity of Large Format, Medium Format (RB67/RZ67) and Canon FD 35mm equipment over the past 5 years or so (primarily because the prices are attractive). I have noticed a general decline in the pricing of the MF and 35mm equipment I purchased (as I have kept track of some of the later eBay listings). Large Format has been a mix with some great deals here and there, but lately deals on lenses are a bit harder to find compared to the past couple of years. (Maybe some digivangelistas are coming home again to LF?)

I track (occasionally) the ongoing market value of these items I purchased out of [a] general interest and to ensure I keep them properly insured (most important reason). I do not regret anything I have purchased as I have used the equipment I purchased, and I will continue to use it all. If I spent my time wringing my hands and worrying about my so-called "investment", I would not have derived the enjoyment (and prints) I have in the past several years.

Try to assess each purchase on its own merits: [1] will you use it? [2] will you enjoy using it? [3] will it give you the results you seek now and in the future? [4] is it currently good value for the results you seek?

If you answer yes to at least of three of those questions, then go for it and quit worrying so much (LOL). Try to think of your film camera purchase as MUCH better value than a PC powered by Windows (which, I am sure, most of us are cursed with). If one sits on the sidelines waiting to play in a PC arena, the pace of change in PCs (and software) is such that one will NEVER play. At least your film camera you purchase today will likely still be working 4 or 5 years from now, and think of all the enjoyment you will derive in between!

To conclude, quit stewing about the camera markets (and trends) and get what you need to start having some fun and creativity!!!

eric · Oct 28, 2007

I think for the basic stuff, prices are coming down but for the still high end stuff, its going up! SWCs, Flexbodies, 40mm, Hasselblads are way up there. Seems like more than in previous years. Perhaps people are getting into buying a basic body/lens and then wanting the other things later on thus driving those prices up.

PhotoJim · Oct 28, 2007

These patterns seem to hold for me too. I'm a Nikon guy in 35mm. The lower-end stuff is definitely very cheap and not getting more costly at all. Conversely, there are a few bits of gear (the F5 body, the FM3a body and a few lenses, e.g. the 35/1.4) that seem to be going up in price.

I recently bought an F5 because they were so cheap and I could afford it. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of other film shooters are taking advantage of opportunities like this to buy high-end gear, and liquidate low-end gear. If this theory is right, that would explain why low-end stuff is dropping and high-end stuff is going up.

Curt · Oct 28, 2007

Yes, they certainly are going up and down.

waynecrider · Oct 28, 2007

The thing top do is put your pennies away and wait till the next recession or worse. Then it all hits the market at sell out prices. Remember right after 9/11? You could practically buy anything at 40% to 50% off at least. The thing to buy is film. Prices have gone up and will continue to do so. With a freezer it keeps just fine.

Curt · Oct 28, 2007

They appear to be going up, especially medium format and specialty cameras. Large format seem to be commanding higher prices too. Settle on a format and get film to last a while and forget about buying out the market I guess.

Nick Zentena · Oct 29, 2007

It's more a supply issue I think.

It seems the flood of Pentax 645 and Bronicas have dried up. So the prices are now going up.

Other things are still widely available and prices are dropping.

Terence · Oct 29, 2007

Do you worry about the declining value of your car? In most cases, cameras, like cars, are a depreciating asset. But you are getting value out of them by using them. If you're looking for an investment, aim for the highest end of the range and use it only often enough to cycle the shutters. If you're looking for a camera to use, go for the best deal you can find and don't worry about the resale value.

Or do what Jim Galli does. Find a low-price item, take beautiful pictures with it, talk it up on the forums, and create a new resale market where none existed. Remember, he was Jim "G Claron" Galli before he was Jim "Soft Focus/Swirly Bokeh" Galli.

airgunr · Oct 29, 2007

There are some great deals on the older MF Nikons. I've picked up a FM2n, FE2 and FA in the last year for dirt cheap. I also picked up a F6 w/MB-40 motor drive for about a 1/3 of what it cost new.

pentaxuser · Oct 29, 2007

In the U.K. it's instructive to look at back copies of Amateur Photographer. Over the longer term i.e. 3-4 years, it's clear that for most cameras, if not all, the prices have dropped appreciably. I looked especially at F100 and F5 and the former seemed to be about the £450- £500 about 3-4 years ago and are now about £250 - 300 for comparable condition.

pentaxuser

keithwms · Oct 29, 2007

I watch the rangefinder markets pretty closely; in that sector, I can report that the fuji gsw690 series, some of the other fujis like the ga645 series, and the mamiya 6 cameras are appreciating and now in low supply.

I don't see anything particularly encouraging in the older 35mm RF or SLR market; with exception of a few collectibles, those cameras seem to be a poor investment from a financial standpoint, albeit still an excellent one from a photographic standpoint, so don't flame me! I notice that the prices of the premium newer 35mm RFs (leicas and the ZI) are still quite healthy and there don't seem to be many on the used market.

Generally 35mm slrs seem to be depreciating much more than the higher end RFs, but I did notice that the Nikon fm3a is holding strong, perhaps the benefit of being the last great, robust mass produced 35mm slr... or am I just looking through yellow-coloured glasses...

Just a few stray comments from someone who is constantly buying stuff!

spiralcity · Oct 30, 2007

I always have been of the mind, if I want the camera I buy it. Im really not sure what everyone considers a good price in the SLR market,but for me I feel if the camera is pushing the mid 200.00's or 300.00's then it's a bit healthy for me. (Not that I wouldnt buy it.)

I bought an FG with a 50mm about 4 or 5 years ago for around 50.00. I was looking at the same camera on ebay recently and I noticed the price hasnt changed much. Actually the price seems a bit higher now. I seen an FG with lens sell in the upper 80.00's just a few days ago. Still dirt cheap but yet a bit higher.

mabman · Oct 30, 2007

Well, the other day I just picked up an older Mamiya m645 kit for ~US$200 (metered prism, 80mm lens, 120 back). From what I've seen I got a decent deal. I'm hoping this trend continues so that I can afford a nice RZ67, a couple of Hasselblads, and at least 1 Leica M6 soon

benjiboy · Oct 30, 2007

MP_Wayne said:
I have purchased a considerable quantity of Large Format, Medium Format (RB67/RZ67) and Canon FD 35mm equipment over the past 5 years or so (primarily because the prices are attractive). I have noticed a general decline in the pricing of the MF and 35mm equipment I purchased (as I have kept track of some of the later eBay listings). Large Format has been a mix with some great deals here and there, but lately deals on lenses are a bit harder to find compared to the past couple of years. (Maybe some digivangelistas are coming home again to LF?)

I track (occasionally) the ongoing market value of these items I purchased out of [a] general interest and to ensure I keep them properly insured (most important reason). I do not regret anything I have purchased as I have used the equipment I purchased, and I will continue to use it all. If I spent my time wringing my hands and worrying about my so-called "investment", I would not have derived the enjoyment (and prints) I have in the past several years.

Try to assess each purchase on its own merits: [1] will you use it? [2] will you enjoy using it? [3] will it give you the results you seek now and in the future? [4] is it currently good value for the results you seek?

If you answer yes to at least of three of those questions, then go for it and quit worrying so much (LOL). Try to think of your film camera purchase as MUCH better value than a PC powered by Windows (which, I am sure, most of us are cursed with). If one sits on the sidelines waiting to play in a PC arena, the pace of change in PCs (and software) is such that one will NEVER play. At least your film camera you purchase today will likely still be working 4 or 5 years from now, and think of all the enjoyment you will derive in between!

To conclude, quit stewing about the camera markets (and trends) and get what you need to start having some fun and creativity!!!

This posting makes a great deal of sense to me, and I agree entirely . I value cameras in terms of what they can do, and how much pleasure I will get from using them not as a commodity to buy and sell.

David H. Bebbington · Oct 30, 2007

Question - does anyone have knowledge/personal experience of any camera equipment which DOES behave like an investment and yield a return at least as good as a bank savings account (i.e. at least 5% by UK standards)? My impression is that mint-grade collector's items are (just) holding their value but not gaining, everything else is depreciating (but as others have said, very gently compared with automobiles, consumer electronics, computers, etc.).

The most valid criterion is surely utilitarian value - if you buy a mint Nikon or whatever for $250 and it takes great pictures for 5 or 10 years, this has to be a good deal!

Regards,

David

Dan Fromm · Oct 30, 2007

David, there's no telling when the bubble will burst, but collectors in the far east seem to be mad for relatively fast lenses with relatively large coverage. Longer Dallmeyer Super Sixes, for example. These lenses have been getting absolutely silly prices on eBay for the last several years. But it isn't obvious whether the trend of the prices they fetch is up, down, or sideways.

Steve S · Oct 30, 2007

I both collect and use. As the penance for buying something new I generally sell on some items which I no longer use or simply wish to part company with.
At one time about 80% of my sales of 35mm SLR and R/f equipment and accessories stayed at home in the UK. Now I am finding that about 70% are going abroad especially to Italy, France, Spain and the Far East. Sales to the USA have almost totally dried up.
My guess is that it is broadly based on national perceptions of the on-going viability of film based photography. The UK and USA certainly seem to be going all out down the digital route. Our European cousins seem to be taking a more considered view . A recent trip to Barcelona revealed two extremely well stocked photographic outlets with lots of classic film based gear and consumables along side their digital solutions. A similar situation applied in Prague a couple of years ago too.
These could be isolated examples but they do bear out my sales experiences of late.

Dan Fromm · Oct 30, 2007

Steve, the rise of the UKP against the $US has made buying in the UK less attractive to US residents than it used to be.

MP_Wayne · Oct 30, 2007

Dan Fromm said:
Steve, the rise of the UKP against the $US has made buying in the UK less attractive to US residents than it used to be.

Yep, but the rise of the ersatz Canadian dollar against the US dollar has made buying in the USA very attractive! ;-)

keithwms · Oct 30, 2007

David H. Bebbington said:
Question - does anyone have knowledge/personal experience of any camera equipment which DOES behave like an investment and yield a return at least as good as a bank savings account (i.e. at least 5% by UK standards)?

Of course, the best way to increase the value of your gear is to take some really famous pictures with it

See ebay item 270167088524....

MP_Wayne · Oct 30, 2007

keithwms said:
Of course, the best way to increase the value of your gear is to take some really famous pictures with it

Absolutely dead-on!

Pavel+ · Oct 30, 2007

I don't know about bodies but lenses for nikon anyways have lately been going through the roof.

Film camera prices: Going up or down?

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