Fill flash

ajuk · Jul 10, 2008

I was taking some photos of model last week, I noticed when I have used the flash it seems to have attempted to provide all the light its self.

Compare this Dead Link Removed
to this Dead Link Removed where I have taken the pic before the flash has had time to charge, a lucky mistake!? Should I set the flash to slow sync if I just want fill in?

RobC · Jul 10, 2008

suggest you read the manual for your flash unit carefully and that you have set the correct mode on your camera and flash unit and that the flash unit is compatible with your camera. Looks like the flash has not metered itself or your OTF or TTL flash metering is not functioning as it should be. Probably because of the settings you have used.

markbarendt · Jul 10, 2008

ajuk said:
Should I set the flash to slow sync if I just want fill in?

Yes, slow tries to balance the exposures.

Practice though, motion can give you effects that are not always pleasing especially as the ambient gets darker.

ajuk · Jul 11, 2008

Oh I know that But I was close to the max flash sync of the camera(1/125), all I have is a cheap Sunpak 888AFZ which is supposed to do TTL with Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Minolta. I am using a Nikon F80. it doesn't have much by way of controls on the flash its self, just a switch for the focal length and film speed, but these must surly be redundant it flash is controlled my the camera? I think I might get an SB-28 and remember to use slow sync just for fill in next time!

GeoffHill · Jul 11, 2008

I set the camera to under-expose by 2/3 of a stop, on Av mode with the shutter speed set to 1/200th, and the TTL flash to -1/3 stop. Seems to work itself out

Mike Wilde · Jul 11, 2008

older camera = more flash thinking

TTL is great for flash control on macro work, or at kids birthday parties etc.

When I shoot to do fill, I just use the cameras meter/handheld meter to determine the ambient lighting. Then I use an old Vivitar or Metz flash that allows different aperture settings, depending on which slider position puts more ND in front of the flash light sensor eye.

Say ambient light is metered to give f/5.6, (at focal plane shutter synch speed - I wont go into in lens leaf shutters here) and I want -1 stop fill - so I set the flash to expect the camera lens to be set to f/8, and make the exposure - bingo - -1 stop fill lfash (don't let the sun shine stright into the falsh eye when back lighting withe the ambient lighting though) .

John Koehrer · Jul 11, 2008

With the background being so much darker and prevalent than the subject I doubt that ttl will solve your problem. Slow synch will help compensate but it's up to you to learn when automation isn't going to work.

ajuk · Jul 11, 2008

Doesn't the F80 just concentrate on getting the flash to light the area that's in focus?

MattKing · Jul 11, 2008

Mike Wilde said:
Say ambient light is metered to give f/5.6, (at focal plane shutter synch speed - I wont go into in lens leaf shutters here) and I want -1 stop fill - so I set the flash to expect the camera lens to be set to f/8, and make the exposure - bingo - -1 stop fill lfash (don't let the sun shine stright into the falsh eye when back lighting withe the ambient lighting though) .

Mike:

Don't you mean that you set the flash to expect the camera lens to be set to f/4, rather than f/8?

If the flash thinks you are using f/8, won't it put out twice the light needed for f/5.6, not half the light needed?

Matt

haris · Jul 12, 2008

ajuk said:
Doesn't the F80 just concentrate on getting the flash to light the area that's in focus?

And there you have kids birthday, several kids, one dressed in black t-shirt, another wear aluminium foil made hat on head, third white dress, forth glases, fifth...

You can't trust to autamatization everytime

haris · Jul 12, 2008

MattKing said:
Mike:

Don't you mean that you set the flash to expect the camera lens to be set to f/4, rather than f/8?

If the flash thinks you are using f/8, won't it put out twice the light needed for f/5.6, not half the light needed?

Matt

True.

haris · Jul 12, 2008

ajuk said:
...all I have is a cheap Sunpak 888AFZ which is supposed to do TTL with Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Minolta. I am using a Nikon F80. ...

But, you need SCA adapter for your camera! You can't use flash with SCA adapter for Canon on your Nikon. You do have SCA adapter for your camera?

If you don't have SCA adapter, you can use flash as generic, that is you are without TTL, that is without camera-flash communication, and you have to use flash as with any old not automated camera

ajuk · Jul 12, 2008

I always used to think I had the Nikon model unless its a generic instruction manual, how do I find out and whats an SCA adapter?

RobC · Jul 12, 2008

An SCA is an adapter which sits between your flash unit and your camera hotshoe. It must be the correct one your camera/flash unit combination. Basically allows your camera to work a flash unit which has different connector configuration than your camera does. Depending on camera and flash unit, some or all functions will work. Just sticking any old flash unit direct onto camera will not neccessarily allow the ttl or OTF metering to work the flash properly.

So, as I said before, read the flash manual carefully and check its compatibility with your camera.

RobC · Jul 12, 2008

Also read your camera manual carefully because I suspect it thinks you will be using standard TTL flash which does not balance flash with background(assuming your flash can actually talk to the camera).

ajuk · Jul 13, 2008

I did a test with the lens cap, and it must do TTL.

One thing about the F80 is that for some reason when it's in slow sync mode their is nothing to tell me on the LCD.

jeroldharter · Jul 13, 2008

If you have a TTL flash, use aperture priority mode on the camera and meter the subject as normal. Then set the flash to underexpose. Experiment with the degree of underexposure from the flash, probably settling somewhere from -2/3 stop to -1 1/3 stop for a fill flash effect.

In this setup, the camera is determining the background exposure and the flash is affecting the subject exposure. Therefore, if the ambient lighting is dim, you might need a tripod even with the flash.

RobC · Jul 13, 2008

Have you tried using flash expsoure compensation by setting EV to -2

John Koehrer · Jul 13, 2008

ajuk said:
I did a test with the lens cap, and it must do TTL.

One thing about the F80 is that for some reason when it's in slow sync mode their is nothing to tell me on the LCD.

?
check the bottom of the flash. It should have the same number & pattern of connections as the hot shoe does.

ajuk · Jul 13, 2008

I think the lens cap test was conclusive, with the cap on it came out full blast, without it didn't.

Mike Wilde · Jul 14, 2008

Right -oh "d'oh"

MattKing said:
Mike:

Don't you mean that you set the flash to expect the camera lens to be set to f/4, rather than f/8?

If the flash thinks you are using f/8, won't it put out twice the light needed for f/5.6, not half the light needed?

Matt

Of course. I wrote this as I was about to head out the door to take the family canoe tripping for the weekend, and had about a zillion other thoughts of what - did I have to still do/had forgottong/etc. on my mind.

The other confusing factor is sometimes I set up my Speedo blackline studio flash rig outside and use ambient light as the overall fill. 2400w/s at less than a few metres away from the flash head with this setup is usually brighter than the sun. It works wonderfully when I am shooting a group portrait and need a bit more depth of field, because the ortho sheet film I have a stash of is lith, and when processed for continous tone work this equates to and effective EI of around 6, and then there is a bellows factor to deal with at times with some subjects as well.

c6h6o3 · Jul 14, 2008

You didn't say whether you were using TTL flash or not.

But with my Hasselblad 503cxi, I take an incident reading of the ambient light with a hand held meter and close the aperture 1/2 stop down from that reading. I then set the TTL flash setting on the camera to double the film speed. (i.e. 800 for Portra 400 VC). The exposures are invariably perfect.

This will only work, however, if you have control over both the flash and the aperture separately and the flash is being metered through the lens.

John Koehrer · Jul 14, 2008

ajuk said:
I think the lens cap test was conclusive, with the cap on it came out full blast, without it didn't.

Ooooh, that's what you meant. Just never heard it called the lens cap test.

ajuk · Jul 14, 2008

I made it up, thought it was self explanatory. Anyway I think I messed up because I didn't use slow sync.

RobC · Jul 14, 2008

I thought you wanted fill. Fill needs one or two stops less than ambient so it affects only shadows and not highlights. If you just want balanced then slow sync will help but with your subject having highly reflective white dress, then I don't think it will work as well as you think it will because the flash will push the highlights up as well.
So for fill you want flash with -2 EV compensation. That way the dress won't be blown out like it is in your first shot.

Fill flash

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