Field/collapsible 4x5 camera needed

Hi all

I currently have a Cambo SC (or is it an SCII? hard to tell). I'm happy with the camera itself it has its set of drawbacks for the uses I have of it which is isn't studio-like but rather landscape/architecture. Also, I have no car and have to take public transports which means the Cambo, practically is very heavy:
* One (rather big) backpack for the Cambo and a lens on it (and couple holders)
* One small backpack for the other two lenses, the compendium and the spotmeter (and couple holders)
* the tripod being a Manfrotto 190DB + Cambo SCH (very heavy) head.
Just for note: the lenses are: Symmar-s 150/5.6, Symmar 240/5.6 and Super Angulon 75/5.6 all on Cambo boards.

All of these are very heavy to lug around and I thought that a field camera would take less space, a bit less weight. Smaller boards will take less space/weight as well. I'm waiting for my first grafmatic which will spare a couple holders as well. Then I'll need to find an alternative to my (OKish) tripod and very heavy but sturdy Cambo head.

I've looked mainly at Toyo 45CF, 45A models as well as Wistas and Technikas.
Architecture asks for a much movements as possible so I suppose the Toyo 45CF isn't that interesting.
But there are other field camera I dunno about or collapsible I didn't think about, I'm certain.
I don't want (nor can I afford) any luxury new Ebony or such cameras unfortunately.

What would you chose? What did I miss? Where should I look? etc.

Thank you much

Search the archives here. "Which field camera?"
"Which 4x5?"
Canham
Chamonix-great but not for architecture

Look at Horseman 4x5 models, also. I don't know the full specs, but I started using one of their 6x9 technical cameras and have found it to be well-made. Not a Linhof, but solid and functional.

I've been using a Wista 45DX for the past 28 years and it's never let me down plenty of movements, I can highly recommend them.

Ian

I use a Crown Grapflex it all most like a 35mm camera when taking photo it is fast to setup and I can move the move lens to till and, or move

Dave

+1 for Wista DX......

Shen Hao PTB45

The extra movements are just what you need. Build quality is first class. The price is very attractive. It folds away flat. It isn't heavy. I haven't used one but I do use the 8x10 version the FCL810-A



RR

I don't know what price range you're thinking, but I recently bought a new Chamonix F1 for the same reasons. I have a Cambo monorail (hubby calls it the "railgun") and it weighs nearly 9 pounds. I have hauled it into the woods, but wanted a field camera. I think there's a thread from back in August or so where I or another asked for suggestions for a field camera and got lots of helpful answers. I bought a new one, but I've seen some used ones for sale here and on LFPF recently, so that can shave a little money off. Shen Hao is another currently made field camera that's well regarded. I use my Chamonix in place of the Cambo even when I'm not hiking and am even considering selling the Cambo because of that.

x2 for the Wista 45DX. It's a wonderful little camera and you can even squeeze a 65mm lens on but with very little movement, 90 mm is ideal. It looks right, feels right and performs as a 4x5 field camera should.
Pete.

As someone who also rides a bike, walks and takes the bus, I have a different take on this. Shoot 35mm w/ a Nikon tilt lens. Man, I tried lugging all that stuff around, then gave it up for MF, then gave THAT up for 35mm. The final solution, so to speak. It's a lot nicer when I walk out the door now :]

But that Shen Hao is awfully attractive for what you want.

smithdoor said:

I use a Crown Grapflex it all most like a 35mm camera when taking photo it is fast to setup and I can move the move lens to till and, or move

Dave

Click to expand...

A Crown Graphic (or Speed Graphic) is the 5x4 camera that least meets the OP's needs, its movements are pathetic. That's speaking from experience and also from having written an article about Crown/Speed and Super Graphics.

Ian

Those Shen Hao cameras are beautiful!

I don't really know much about all these styles of cameras, but the amount of movements available on the Shen Haos make them look particularly enticing.

Could the OP get one of the other recommended bodies and use his existing lenses with a compatible lens board, to save money and allow him to put more of his budget into the body itself. And thus getting more bang for his buck?

Could the OP get one of the other recommended bodies and use his existing lenses with a compatible lens board, to save money and allow him to put more of his budget into the body itself. And thus getting more bang for his buck?

Click to expand...

Nice thing about most all of the LF stuff is being able to move the lenses around between products with the use of the correct lens board.

Thank you all for you suggestions.
I indeed didn't think about a couple of those so you're all have been helpful
I'm already looking at changing my Cambo board to Technika boards as it seems those are more or less the universal boards for LF.
My Symmar 240 came on a Technika and the shutter size isn't standard so I already have a custom adapter board Technika -> Cambo.
I'll exchange all my Cambo for Technika boards. The usual shop owner should agree.
Then it will be easier to move to other cameras.

As for cameras: if I'm correct, cams like Wista/Toya/Technika are limited as for back movements ?
For architecture work, I need the back (and front of course) to be able to come forward to stay parallel to the building.

thibsie said:

Hi all

I currently have a Cambo SC (or is it an SCII? hard to tell). I'm happy with the camera itself it has its set of drawbacks for the uses I have of it which is isn't studio-like but rather landscape/architecture. Also, I have no car and have to take public transports which means the Cambo, practically is very heavy:
* One (rather big) backpack for the Cambo and a lens on it (and couple holders)
* One small backpack for the other two lenses, the compendium and the spotmeter (and couple holders)
* the tripod being a Manfrotto 190DB + Cambo SCH (very heavy) head.
Just for note: the lenses are: Symmar-s 150/5.6, Symmar 240/5.6 and Super Angulon 75/5.6 all on Cambo boards.

All of these are very heavy to lug around and I thought that a field camera would take less space, a bit less weight. Smaller boards will take less space/weight as well. I'm waiting for my first grafmatic which will spare a couple holders as well. Then I'll need to find an alternative to my (OKish) tripod and very heavy but sturdy Cambo head.

I've looked mainly at Toyo 45CF, 45A models as well as Wistas and Technikas.
Architecture asks for a much movements as possible so I suppose the Toyo 45CF isn't that interesting.
But there are other field camera I dunno about or collapsible I didn't think about, I'm certain.
I don't want (nor can I afford) any luxury new Ebony or such cameras unfortunately.

What would you chose? What did I miss? Where should I look? etc.

Thank you much

Click to expand...

I really admire your dedication and your future chiropracticer's income.I have a Cambo a Toyo metal field and a Linhof Technikardan myself.The Cambo is best for tthe studio.The Toyo is best for travel work and the Linhof is the best alrounder.If I would be forced to pick only one,I'd go with the Toyo.some claim it has limited adjustmentsbut my adjustment bottle neck are tthe lenses not the cameras.all the best

wildbill said:

Chamonix-great but not for architecture

Click to expand...

Why you think it's not suitable for architecture? I'd say wide angle capability of this camera somehow designates it for this purpose...

You may also consider one of wide-angle no-tilt cameras, like Cambo Wide DS. Unlike folders they can be hand-held. Unfortunately they tend to be quite expensive.

I love my Shen Hao folding camera. It folds away pretty small and is very light. The build quality and the looks are an added bonus.


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Thank Ralph, and everybody else
Cambo Wide DS is, I fear, completely out of my budget.

It seems, for the most part, that I'm considering now Shen Hao or Wista ('cos there's a wide bellow on Wista and not for Toyo).

When I was choosing a field camera, I leaned towards Shen Hao, because their cameras were much cheaper than Chamonix. Yet then I calculated total of everything I wanted to buy, added shipping and the difference got negligible, and there was huge difference in expected delivery (actual delivery in case of Camonix turned out to be even faster then expected, Friday afternoon to Tuesday morning). I also had read many comments on Chamonix superior quality over Shen Hao (I cannot deny or confirm - I've got only one of them).

When buying a new camera consider if you want:
- a universal bellows
- bag and standard bellows
- bag and universal bellows

I decided on bag & standard, and I'm quite happy with them. Camonix's standard bellows sags a bit, so universal one does perhaps even more. An I don't expect universal bellows would allow me using my 58mm grandagon on a flat lens-board.

YMMV

thibsie said:

Thank you all for you suggestions. ... As for cameras: if I'm correct, cams like Wista/Toya/Technika are limited as for back movements ? For architecture work, I need the back (and front of course) to be able to come forward to stay parallel to the building.

Click to expand...

Back movements most folders are limited to swing, tilt and, sometimes, shift. Usually a folder has shift only on one standard; some have none at all. Stay away from those. There is no rear rise/fall on most folding cameras; you use the front standard for this. The tilts on folding cameras, especially the lighter and less-expensive ones are almost always base tilts. It takes a bit of time to learn how to use these quickly and effectively if you are used to axis tilts. Once mastered, however, base tilts are just as effective as any.

Before buying a lighter camera, I suggest that you consider how extensively you plan to use camera movements.

I own Wista DXs, a Horseman Woodman and a Zone VI wooden field camera (in addition to my monorails, which never go into the field). The Woodman is quite "bare-bones," the Wista DX a bit more versatile, the Zone VI is bulky and heavy but full-featured and has interchangeable bellows.

There are some issues with the smaller, lighter wooden folders like the Woodman and Wista DX when it comes to using movements. Most of these can be overcome by using alternative methods, e.g., pointing up and then tilting front and back parallel to get more rise than you can get with front rise alone (but I did run out of movement on the Woodman the other day even maxed out this way). The real problem comes if you are using short lenses and extreme movements. The bellows often get in the way. Most used Wistas have kinks in the bellows from using shorter lenses at extreme movements.

Using a 90mm or shorter focal-length lens on the Wista DX requires a recessed lensboard if you are planning on using any movements at all. My Woodman doesn't take recessed boards at all, but gives me about the same amount of movement. With both these cameras I can get out to the edge of the image circle of a 90mm Super Angulon f/8, which has a 216mm image circle. This is larger than the image circle of your 75mm, but the 75mm will be focused with the bellows compacted a bit more. You should just be able to squeak out most of its capabilities on either of these cameras.

However, if you plan to work a lot with your 75mm at its extremes and especially if you are planning on a short lens with significantly more coverage (say a 90mm f/5.6), you may want to look at a camera with a universal bellows or interchangeable bellows. The Shen Hao HZX 4X5-IIA (not mentioned yet) has a universal bellows. The PTB has interchangeable bellows.

The PTB and the Chamonix have a different focus/front movement arrangement than more traditional folding cameras like the Wista or the HZX. Before you buy one of these, you should take a good look at the YouTube videos about using them and see if it is something you want. That said, they both look like great cameras and would definitely be in the running were I looking for a new folder. I'd also be looking seriously at the more traditional HZX and the TZ45-IIB as well.

FWIW, I carry my Woodman, five lenses, Pentax spotmeter, five or six filmholders, filters, etc. around Vienna in a small combination rolling carry-on/backpack. It has both wheels/extending handle and shoulder straps. It goes on my back most of the time but I really like the fact that it stands upright when placed on the ground, which makes it easy to work from. I have 90mm, 135mm, 180mm, 210mm and 240mm lenses. I occasionally find that I need more movements from the Woodman than it can give, but only rarely. The Shen Hao and Chamonix cameras mentioned would certainly be more flexible in that regard.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

before you reject a camera because of movements make sureyour lenses have an image circle to support these movements.in my experience camera movements are not the bottle neck but lens image circles are.

This spring i had to get a new camera after my old and trusted Toyo didn't survive an accident. I decided on a ShenHao HZX IIA. It has all the movements i ever would need and more then any of my 6 lenses take. This includes front rise and fall and plenty of tilt en swing, on the back there is both base tilt and over the axis tilt, about 3.5 cm shift in both directions and plenty of back rise and agian enough swing. On top of that i can use the standard bellows with normal lenspanels on all the lenses i have, including a 58mm SA XL. In one of my other post i included a few pictures of the camera with that lens, showing how that is done. It is light and folds up until a nice, compact box.

On the down side: the build uality is good enough, but could be a bit better and some of the controls use smaller knobs then my old Toyo used, but over the last year of intense use i found it a joy to use. I can't compare with the other camera's mentioned - except for the Toyos - but for architecture i wouldn't hesitate a second if i had to choose

The Shen Hao HZX that I have is a fine camera. Given that the size requires the hardware to be small it works as advertised. I took mine on a flight with a load of lenses and holders etc.. Carried it all on with me. The movements are generous and the entire camera is intuitive.