FIELD CAMERA : Toyo 45a vs Toyo 45cf

[jbluesto]

I am looking to purchase my first large format camera. After all of my research and reading I have narrowed my selection to the Toyo 45a and the 45cf. I have read mixed reviews of the Toyo 45cf [but the majority do praise the weightloss]. From what I have read, to cut the weight of the CF nearly in half, the stability/rigidness has been comprimised, is this a valid complaint?

I will be using the camera primarily for landscapes so weight is definitely a huge concern.

Any recomendations, preferences, or advice you are willing to part with would be much appreciated for a "first time" Large Format camera purchase.

Thanks, J

 

[Terence]

Instead of heavy machined parts, it used pressed metal parts. The carbon fiber material itself is VERY rigid.

I have a 45CF and love it. It doesn't do everything the 45a can do, nor is it as rigid, etc, but when I go hiking I'm glad for every once I save with the 45CF. And for landscape shots that I primarily do, it has all the movements and rigidity that I need. The build quality is fine, and in proportion to what I paid for it. But then, I bought it at an intro price of $475.

 

[nicolai]

While I haven't used a 45A, I have a 45CF and really like it (and just picked up another for a friend). Is it as rigid as an Ebony? No. But it can more than handle the weight of modern lenses without issue. I've even mounted some (admittedly smaller) old brass barrel lenses in homemade cardboard lens boards and had no issues with stability. I wouldn't try it with my 8-inch long, 4.5 pound, 17" f/4.5 Dallmeyer, but that's asking a lot of any 4x5 field camera.

It's light, tiny, cheap, much better built than the other cameras in its price range, and won't shatter if your tripod blows over. I'd recommend it without hesitation.

 

[Jordan.K]

Have the 45A and love it. super sturdy and well constructed. A tad heavy, butthat just means less chance of shake with longer exposurers.

 

[Dave_B]

Toyo 45A and the 45CF

I have both the Toyo 45AII and the Toyo 45CF. The AII is a tank. Heavy, solid, very reliable. The 45AII is a great camera, just heavy. The 45CF is my backpacking camera. It is light, strong enough for all reasonable use and fully featured enough for anything you could want it for. It has a nice feature of allowing you close it up with the lens inside. This makes for a good way to backpack with it and a lens. The lens is very well protected. I recommend them both, just for different applications.
Cheers,
Dave B.

 

[rkmiec]

i looked at both of these cameras when deciding on a 4x5.from what i read i liked the 45a better.however i dont consider weight an issue at this time.maybe in the future.i went with the wista sp.i know it is not the 45a or cf but as far as your decision i think if you can handle the weight go for the 45a.you never know when you may need a little extra movement.besides you can always talk yourself into the cf at a later date and have a good excuse.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I remember looking at the 45CF when they came out. To me, it had several major drawbacks. It certainly FELT plasticky and flimsy (may not be true, but that was my tactile impression from handling it). When closing the camera, you had to pop the front standard off the focusing track in the front bed and slide it onto the holding track inside the body. This was neither an intuitive or confidence-inspiring procedure. I also felt the fixed bellows on the 45CF were very limiting both in their maximum draw and their minimum. At least with the A II you can use a non-telephoto 300mm closer than infinity. If I remember correctly, the CF would make this impossible. In the end, I chose neither Toyo camera.

 

[Dave_B]

Toyo CF

The Toyo 45CF has an extension range of 80-357mm. With a recessed board you can go shorter and with a tophat board longer. I use 90, 135, 200 and 300mm lenses with flat boards with no problems. The 300 I use is the Nikkor 300M which is not a tele. With a 90mm lens, you do not need to drop the bed to keep it out of the picture. For lenses less than 90mm, you will need to drop the bed of the camera.
The way the front standard is stored when you fold the camera is almost identical to the technique used by the Speed and Crown Graphics. You release the lock on the standard and slide it back into a piece of track in the housing. This locks it into place and holds it securely so that the base plate can fold and lock everything shut. If you have ever owned a Speed or Crown, you will recognize it immediately in the design of the 45CF. It is really quite a solid design. The many hundreds of thousands of Graphic cameras are a confirmation of this approach. It was designed to be solid because it the Graphic cameras had a lens mounted on the standard that one almost never removed. The 45CF is basically a modern, lighter version of a Speed or Crown using modern materials (without the rangefinder, sighting tube and built in shutter release/FP shutter). It is not a tank like the 45AII, but for a light weight, fully functional camera, it works well for me. For a while B&H was selling these new at a steep discount, IIRC something like ~$550.
Cheers,
Dave B.

 

[Jeff Dyck]

On weight

I have a Toyo 45AII, and while it is a tank of a camera, it's weight difference when compared with the 45CF is all relative when compared with the rest of the camera bag. You well have to ask yourself --> How many lenses do I intend to carry? How many film holders? What kind of tripod? Light Meter? Focussing Loop? Dark Cloth? Filters? Lunch?! Some photographers are into ultra-light set-ups at all costs - wooden camera body, underrated carbon fiber tripod, fewer slower lenses in smaller shutters, Quickloads, etc., etc. For me - when I'm all loaded up to spend a day out shooting, I would probably be comparing a 30lb pack of gear with a 32lb pack of gear - the weight of the camera is only a relatively small part of the bag. If you shoot like I do (and assuming both cameras are within your budget), your concern should be with the features that the camera offers, weight be damned!

 

[Terence]

When I'm hiking with a pack already weighing close to 40 lbs before camera equipment, every ounce counts. They add up fast. If I could afford a CF tripod, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. For landscapes I've never needed more than a little front tilt or swing. I could probably count on my fingers and toes the number of times of used rise.

I agree, it's all about what features you need, and, just as importantly, which you don't. For me, weight is a critical feature. Back movements, very short (less than 110mm, for me) and very long lenses (more than 240mm, for me) are not. I don't need an all-singing, all-dancing camera when hiking. For other uses I hae a 5x7 and an 8x10 camera that serve my needs for other situations, but that I wouldn't want to hike 25 miles with over a weekend.

Different strokes . . .

 

[Sportera]

I chose the Tachihara for its weight and movements. The Cf seemed a bit limiting in movements.

 

[PhotoBob]

I use the Toyo 45AII and pack it around in a Tamrac backpack. It is heavy, but a real joy to use.
So the Toyo brand seems to be a good one.
Take Care

 

[Dave_B]

Toyo 45CF

For what its worth, I am an ounce counter. My backpacking 4x5 rig consists of the following. My camping gear and my camera gear weigh in under 30 pounds total, all in.
Cheers,
Dave B.

Toyo 45CF Camera 1549gr
Box of Velvia Quickloads (20) 569
Pentax Spot Meter 296
Fuji Film Holder 337
Camera Case 262
Box with Lenses (90, 135, 200, 300) 1493
Tripod 981
Darkcloth 118
Loupe 75
Shutter Release 42
Pen 10
Total: 5732gr 12lb 10oz

 

[Terence]

Wow. What tripod are you using that ways less than the camera?

 

[Dave_B]

A Gitzo Tripod, the G-1155 Traveler Sport Carbon Fiber 2 Tripod Legs (Rapid) with G1077M Ballhead

 

[Terence]

Bugger. B&H shows it as discontinued. Interesting design.

 

[roteague]

I will be using the camera primarily for landscapes so weight is definitely a huge concern.

Weight is a concern, but so are movements. You will have to decide if the loss of movements is more important than the weight loss. For me, it isn't (I use a 45AII).

 

[Earl Dunbar]

I can agree with everything said here regarding the 45A, which I have, and don't doubt the opinions on the CF, which I don't have and haven't used. If weight is a concern but rigidness and ruggedness are also a concern, then I would turn to lighter lenses (slower) for weight savings instead of sacrificing rigidity, etc. The thing I dislike about composites, even as good as they are these days, is that when they fail, they tend to fail disastrously. With metal and wood, you have at least some chance of a temporary repair or fix in the field. I could be all wet regarding that issue with the CF, but I offer it as a thought.

I am not a big person, and while I am quite strong for my size, I seem to be getting older (how the *!c# is that happening) and my stamina has decreased. I have not used the 4x5 in quite some time. Soon I will haul it out and give it a whirl. If I find it too much for me, I will sell it off along with three Fujinons and a Zone VI tripod. But it would make me sad to do so. I love the Toyo 45A.