Fidelity Deluxe 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 holders don't quite fit my Horseman VH-R?

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

Hello!

I recently purchased my first medium format camera. A beautiful condition Horseman VH-R.

With the camera, the seller included multiple Fidelity Deluxe holders.

While looking over the camera when I got home I found that the holders seem extremely tight when placed into the back. So tight that they actually bow from pressure.

Is this a common thing when using these holders?

I know from reading that this is a graflex 23 back...but am I supposed to have different holders?

I also received a rollback for 6x9 with the camera, so using that is absolutely an option. I would just like to burn through this sheet film that I was given with it too.

Thanks!

jtk · May 16, 2020

Graflok and Graflex are not mutually compatible. Seems unlikely that your camera has Graflex and I don't think Fidelity made Graflex-type holders.

I've used both types..my Graflex 23 has a Graflok back ...which works smoothly with my many different Graflex-type holders.

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

I mistyped. The rotating back on the VH-R is based on the grafLOK 23 back.

It just seems like the holders I've got reaaaally have to be forced into the back to make them sit against the foam.

Oren Grad · May 16, 2020

My Fidelity Deluxe 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 holders fit fine in my Horseman VH and VH-R cameras - no issues at all, they slide in smoothly and lock in place as intended.

Can you post some pictures of your holders and also their exact dimensions? Maybe that would help in figuring out what's going on.

Donald Qualls · May 16, 2020

Did you unlock the slides on the Graflok back before trying to insert the film holders? I was just out with my "electron microscope" pinhole camera, which has a 4x5 Graflok back, and the slides will completely block out a Graphic film holder (the common variety) if they're in the lock position. I may have to get a Grafmatic just to be able to use regular sheet film in that camera (I originally used it with Polaroid 3x4 and 4x5 pack film backs -- that film is no longer available and I'm sure the few packs I have left are dried out -- twelve to fifteen years at room temperature), or else find a way to groove my film holders without destroying them.

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

Oren Grad said:
My Fidelity Deluxe 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 holders fit fine in my Horseman VH and VH-R cameras - no issues at all, they slide in smoothly and lock in place as intended.

Can you post some pictures of your holders and also their exact dimensions? Maybe that would help in figuring out what's going on.

Will do when I get back home. I've got to grab a battery for my mitutoyo caliper too.

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Did you unlock the slides on the Graflok back before trying to insert the film holders? I was just out with my "electron microscope" pinhole camera, which has a 4x5 Graflok back, and the slides will completely block out a Graphic film holder (the common variety) if they're in the lock position. I may have to get a Grafmatic just to be able to use regular sheet film in that camera (I originally used it with Polaroid 3x4 and 4x5 pack film backs -- that film is no longer available and I'm sure the few packs I have left are dried out -- twelve to fifteen years at room temperature), or else find a way to groove my film holders without destroying them.

Hi Don.

Yes, the tabs are definitely on their outermost position that would be needed to remove the roll back, for example. The holders don't seem to be hitting the tabs. It's like they are hitting on the body above and/or below at the foam.

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

Oren- Do you see these two metal tabs circled on your body?

I'm measuring 3.085" width available at the foam where these are, and my holders are measuring at 3.115" +/- .001" measured at 4 different holders.

Oren Grad · May 16, 2020

My holders measure 79 mm wide, which is more or less what you find with yours. They fit in my camera backs smoothly but with essentially zero up/down play. The fuzzy gray stuff inside the red circles in your picture is not there in my cameras - they have just smooth, black metal surfaces that are flat along the entire length of the opening. Looks like a prior owner added those tabs or whatever they are, perhaps to get a more snug fit with some narrower holders.

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

Oren Grad said:
My holders measure 79 mm wide, which is more or less what you find with yours. They fit in my camera backs smoothly but with essentially zero up/down play. The fuzzy gray stuff inside the red circles in your picture is not there in my cameras - they have just smooth, black metal surfaces that are flat along the entire length of the opening. Looks like a prior owner added those tabs or whatever they are, perhaps to get a more snug fit with some narrower holders.

My glass back and roll holder fit nicely. I think I'll leave the tabs there. They're metal shim with some kind of coating. I didn't think they looked factor though.

Since my roll back and glass fit I'm gonna plan on giving a little love to these holders to see if I can skinny them up a bit.

Oren Grad · May 16, 2020

FWIW, my late-model Horseman baby-Graflok roll holders, which were standard equipment for the VH amd VH-R, measure 78mm-plus-a-micro-hair across at the bearing surface, and do have a slight bit of up-down play when mounted.

Regardless: good luck, hope you have fun with the camera!

ic-racer · May 16, 2020

I believe the Horseman ground glass back comes with two strips of material that look like camera covering material in the channel. I think this is to make the Horseman holders fit and the generic holders too tight. The two strips of material can be removed, and the channel will then be enlarged to take the generic film holders.

I wanted to save them so I stuck them to the wall behind my workbench, they are still there...

Jmatteson · May 16, 2020

ic-racer said:
I believe the Horseman ground glass back comes with two strips of material that look like camera covering material in the channel. I think this is to make the Horseman holders fit and the generic holders too tight. The two strips of material can be removed, and the channel will then be enlarged to take the generic film holders.

I wanted to save them so I stuck them to the wall behind my workbench, they are still there...

View attachment 246416

You're absolutely correct. I removed them just now and cleaned it all up, and now the holders slide in and fit perfectly. The horseman rollback and stuff seems to still fit perfectly adequately. Have you had any issues with light leaks at all?

Fidelity Deluxe 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 holders don't quite fit my Horseman VH-R?

Jmatteson

Attachments

jtk

Jmatteson

Oren Grad

Donald Qualls

Jmatteson

Jmatteson

Jmatteson

Attachments

Oren Grad

Jmatteson

Oren Grad

ic-racer

Jmatteson

Fidelity Deluxe 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 holders don't *quite* fit my Horseman VH-R?

Attachments

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

Fidelity Deluxe 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 holders don't quite fit my Horseman VH-R?