FIBRE PAPER - DRY DOWN

Pete Millson · Oct 27, 2008

Hello. Hope you're all well.

I'm back in the darkroom a bit more regularly now and am using ILFORD fibre warmtone.

Dry down! Aaargh!

I use f-stop printing and my guess, sat here looking at my work prints on the wall, is that I probably need to go for a quarter stop less exposure than that which looks correct holding it out of the fix.

Any superior knowledge and experience out there?

Cheers,

PETE.

tessar · Oct 27, 2008

According to my experience your conclusion is right. Prints always dry down darker than they appear when wet. For me (and this might depend on what drying method you use) about one-half stop works out best.

David Brown · Oct 27, 2008

You need to test (or experiment) because it "depends". Mine is 8% with MGIV. YMMV ...

Ken N · Oct 27, 2008

Pete Millson said:
Hello. Hope you're all well.

I'm back in the darkroom a bit more regularly now and am using ILFORD fibre warmtone.

Dry down! Aaargh!

I use f-stop printing and my guess, sat here looking at my work prints on the wall, is that I probably need to go for a quarter stop less exposure than that which looks correct holding it out of the fix.

Any superior knowledge and experience out there?

Cheers,

PETE.

I have my StopClock Professional's "Drydown Compensation" set at 8% for Ilford FB Glossy. That works well for my wet-print viewing station and how my eyes are calibrated.

Ken

Leon · Oct 27, 2008

I compensate by 10% for Ilford warmtone fibre. read here for superlative advice - http://www.lesmcleanphotography.com/articles.php?page=full&article=28

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 27, 2008

Les McLean posted a good article on this way back--

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Dan Henderson · Oct 27, 2008

I just dry my test prints in an old, garage sale microwave so that I can visually see the drydown.

Jarvman · Oct 27, 2008

Nuke dem test strips!

Colin Corneau · Oct 27, 2008

I prefer the high tech approach of waving my test strip in the air till it dries sufficiently. That plus experience lets you know.

Curt · Oct 27, 2008

I just dry my test prints in an old, garage sale microwave so that I can visually see the drydown.
__________________

As did Ansel Adams, I too go to the kitchen for mine, I need to get one at Walmart or a garage sale.

Dan Henderson · Oct 28, 2008

Curt said:
As did Ansel Adams, I too go to the kitchen for mine, I need to get one at Walmart or a garage sale.

Yes, that is the one thing Ansel Adams and I have in common...

The $20 that I spent on a used microwave was money well invested since I am not contaminating my kitchen microwave with chemicals. The inside of my old microwave is pretty discolored from fixer; I would hate to eat anything that came from it now!

Martin Aislabie · Oct 28, 2008

IMHO - I don't find using the Microwave to dry prints in order to eliminate the dry down effect to be exact

Its close but not exact for dry down

My prints continue to subtly change colour and tone for a couple of days after being dried in the Microwave

I too use the Les McLean method and have a -11% compensation in my Stop Clock

Martin

Maris · Oct 28, 2008

I compensate for dry down by using a rather dim inspection light when judging wet gelatin-silver images. My 20 watt incandescent bulb at 1.2 metres in the darkroom is calibrated to reproduce the effect of a dry picture in ordinary room light.

The inspection light is good for judging tonal balance but it is too dim for looking for picture flaws such as spots in skies or focus shift. I have a high intensity light for that. Since a wet gelatin-silver tends to look gorgeous under a bright light it needs a bit of self-discipline to go back to the dim light for figuring out enlarger settings.

cdhauber · Oct 28, 2008

When I look at the print in full light after the fix, the dry down is about the same as casting a shadow from your hand onto the print. Not scientific but works for me.

steelydam · Oct 28, 2008

I hit the test strip/print with the wife's blow dryer for about 30 seconds. Works well for me.

nworth · Oct 28, 2008

I don't know how you are inspecting your wet prints, but the level of light has a lot to do with what seems to be dry down. Your eyes do not adjust quickly to white light after work under a safelight. If you use a dim incandescent lamp to inspect your print (maybe a 25 W lamp at 6-8 feet) your judgment will be better, but it will still take experience to compensate.

fschifano · Oct 28, 2008

I use an old microwave oven for drying a contact printed step wedge, then calibrate my analyzer to the dried print. RC prints get hit with a hair dryer.

JBrunner · Oct 28, 2008

The best way I know to see the dry down of a paper is to take a dry print out in the kind of light you aim for, and dunk half of it into a tray of water for about 30 seconds or so. When you pull it up the difference will be apparent. A real eye opener.

RJS · Oct 29, 2008

8% works for me with MGIV - which leads me to my only complaint about my RH Designs Analyser Pro: I can gt 1/12 stop dry down, but no smaller increment. Perhaps a newer model has a better set up, I don't follow 'latest - newest - best model stuff, it's too expensive. The Stop Clock or whatever it's called sounds like it does the job!

George Collier · Oct 29, 2008

Well, with all the logical and scientific advice given at the beginning of the thread, I wasn't going to say this, but Maris and the others' posts prompted me -
I use a 25W - 35W (I forget) light recessed into the ceiling, some 1.5 - 2 meters away from the print viewing surface, which is a large piece of heavy lucite, angled so that when I stand 1.5 - 2 meters away from the print, my eyes are at about right angles to the print surface. I have a shield under the light to keep it from shining into my eyes - very important. Also, when viewing, it is the only light on in the darkroom. The print also has time to drain excess water off. When the prints are dried, and viewed under good lighting (usually florescent) they look like they did on the viewing surface. Simple, and works for me.

RH Designs · Oct 30, 2008

RJS said:
8% works for me with MGIV - which leads me to my only complaint about my RH Designs Analyser Pro: I can gt 1/12 stop dry down, but no smaller increment. Perhaps a newer model has a better set up, I don't follow 'latest - newest - best model stuff, it's too expensive. The Stop Clock or whatever it's called sounds like it does the job!

When the Analyser is properly calibrated it automatically compensates for dry down - the grey scale represents the final dry print and a wet print will look lighter than expected. When you do the exposure calibration, be sure the test strips are completely dry before examining them and choosing the required highlight density, and that will solve the problem.

I agree with JBrunner's method above as the best way of estimating dry-down, and if the print you partially dunk is an f-stop printed test strip, you can easily choose the optimum correction. This will work for percentages too for those who prefer linear timings.

jon koss · Nov 15, 2008

Hmm... has anyone ever tried artificially "wetting" the print after drydown to see if the tones come back up? I am thinking of a thin coating of lacquer or such. The idea is that maybe the lacquer would recreate the gorgeous look of the wet GSP.

Maris said:
... Since a wet gelatin-silver tends to look gorgeous under a bright light it needs a bit of self-discipline to go back to the dim light for figuring out enlarger settings.

Philippe-Georges · Nov 16, 2008

One could try this (see attachment) after the print is finished. It is an E. Patton (Stanford) tip, it gives the 'wet-look' back to the print.

Philippe

fred · Nov 16, 2008

leicam5 said:
One could try this (see attachment) after the print is finished. It is an E. Patton (Stanford) tip, it gives the 'wet-look' back to the print.

Philippe

And what about bacterial growth Philippe??
As you probably known: agar-agar is one of the ingredients for bacterial cultures.

Philippe-Georges · Nov 16, 2008

fred said:
And what about bacterial growth Philippe??
As you probably known: agar-agar is one of the ingredients for bacterial cultures.

Bacterial cultures? We use it in the kitchen as a vegetarian substitute for gelatine in cooking anmitsu and jelly...
Agar-agar is somewhat the 'warm' equivalent of gelatine, perhaps some formaldehyde might help as a conserving agent, I do not know, who does?

Philippe

FIBRE PAPER - DRY DOWN

Pete Millson

tessar

David Brown

Ken N

Leon

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Dan Henderson

Jarvman

Colin Corneau

Curt

Dan Henderson

Martin Aislabie

Maris

cdhauber

steelydam

nworth

fschifano

JBrunner

Moderator

RJS

George Collier

RH Designs

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jon koss

Philippe-Georges

fred

Philippe-Georges

FIBRE PAPER - DRY DOWN

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