Fibre gloss vs RC gloss

MattKing · Feb 22, 2016

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Oooh. Piqued my interest. What RC paper do you like? The 5 minute wash really appeals to me.

For glossy, I use the basic Ilford Multigrade IV RC mostly. I have also used the Oriental Seagull in glossy RC, and that was also good for postcards and 8x10s.

When I'm printing something larger in glossy, the Ilford Cooltone RC is very nice for those images that are suited to cooler tones.

EDIT: Strangely, both cool tone and warm tone glossy RC respond really well to brown toning.

The appearance of gloss on RC is different than with ferrotyped FB. Accordingly, it is a subjective question. The improvement in recent years with RC papers is in the underlying emulsion.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 22, 2016

MattKing said:
For glossy, I use the basic Ilford Multigrade IV RC mostly. I have also used the Oriental Seagull in glossy RC, and that was also good for postcards and 8x10s.

When I'm printing something larger in glossy, the Ilford Cooltone RC is very nice for those images that are suited to cooler tones.

EDIT: Strangely, both cool tone and warm tone glossy RC respond really well to brown toning.

The appearance of gloss on RC is different than with ferrotyped FB. Accordingly, it is a subjective question. The improvement in recent years with RC papers is in the underlying emulsion.

Hey Matt,

Thanks! I'm going to get some with my next order with Freestyle. Doesn't surprise me that it's Ilford RC paper.

Patrick Robert James · Feb 22, 2016

Mainecoonmaniac- You should just use the soak method for washing prints. There is no need to keep the water running. I am not worried about water consumption where I am, but I use the soak method because it is the easiest. Fill a tray, put the prints back to front then rotate them and let them soak. Dump the tray, repeat. If you soak them overnight it will completely eliminate any fixer. I forgot who wrote about this, but it works. The only negative (maybe) is you may wash out the optical brighteners (or so I have read). Personally, I don't care, but you may.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 22, 2016

Patrick Robert James said:
Mainecoonmaniac- You should just use the soak method for washing prints. There is no need to keep the water running. I am not worried about water consumption where I am, but I use the soak method because it is the easiest. Fill a tray, put the prints back to front then rotate them and let them soak. Dump the tray, repeat. If you soak them overnight it will completely eliminate any fixer. I forgot who wrote about this, but it works. The only negative (maybe) is you may wash out the optical brighteners (or so I have read). Personally, I don't care, but you may.

That's great! I've heard fixer leaves the prints through diffusion so I would think that fix will migrate from prints into clean water because water has lower concentrations of fix. How many times do you change the water? I have changed my print washing habits since the drought. I don't run the water on my holding bath and I now use an archival print washer. I also use Kodak's residual hypo test.
Thanks,
Don

Patrick Robert James · Feb 22, 2016

MC, I used to put Hypo-Clear in the fixer, but these days I just use a holding bath with some sulfite in it. When I finish printing I run water while rotating the prints for a couple minutes, then I leave them sit. I change the water probably four or five times after the initial rinse. Doesn't use much water at all.

removed account4 · Feb 22, 2016

Mainecoonmaniac -

if you can find it look for ilford "portfolio " rc paper
it is thicker / double weight ? rc paper and really feels substantial instead of "flimsy"
of i haven't really used a ton of different rc papers, but of hte agfa, ilford and kodak i have tried
portfolio is my favorite ...
if i am going to print on FB it will be be matte surface, i can't stand glossy FB paper.

OzJohn · Feb 22, 2016

Jessestr said:
Another question in my personal debate to test out fibre more or not... I recently printed on matte fibre, and didn't really like it over the RC version (both Ilford papers). Except that the warmtone looked more appealing to me, especially with selenium toning.

However, I still want to give fibre a chance. And I once read that fibre gloss is way different then RC gloss. Is this true or nonsense?

Many thanks

Sirius Glass said:
Memories of ferrotyping have reinforced the resolve to buy a drum dryer and never ferrotype again. It usually worked well, but not all the time.

My memories of ferrotyping, lengthy washing and the truly beautiful fibre papers like Portriga Rapid that are no longer available made me resolve to ditch them many, many years ago in favour of RC. Like it or lump it, it is also a fact that today some of the best looking and most tactile photo papers come out of inkjet printers. OzJohn

Eric Rose · Feb 22, 2016

I was giddy with unbridled excitement the day I chucked my ferrotype plates.

MartinP · Feb 23, 2016

Jessestr said:
I really can't find anything about ferrotyping fibre paper online. I always end up on glassplates. Anyone has any resource about this or how it works, or any ferrotype vs non-ferrotyped fibre example?

Borut Peterlin made a video about what he did with an over-exposed Ambrotype ie. ruined for it's original purpose. There is a demonstration of sulphide and selenium toning, cleaning the ferrotyping plate, mounting the print on it etc. Perhaps this will be useful for you

RalphLambrecht · Feb 23, 2016

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I haven't ferrotyped glossy fiberbased paper in over 30 years. But it's the deepest black I've with any photo paper. I remember while in my college photo class drying prints in a ferrotyping paper dryer and the smell of Pakosol. You can have glossy prints if you put wet print facing up and matt if you put the print facing down on the dryer's canvas.

Just in case it's not obvious;don't do this with RC.It will melt the print and mess up the ferrotyping plate as well as the canvas.The polethelene surface of RC prints can't take the heat of the canvas type dryers.

Paul Howell · Feb 23, 2016

You can also spray prints with glossy clear finish, or paint with a roller a coat of clear varnish. I live in the desert, I stopped using spray gloss years ago, well decades ago, due to dust. A once time this was common for folks who exhibited prints for shows, but it is not "archrival" while ferrotyping can be.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 23, 2016

RalphLambrecht said:
Just in case it's not obvious;don't do this with RC.It will melt the print and mess up the ferrotyping plate as well as the canvas.The polethelene surface of RC prints can't take the heat of the canvas type dryers.

It happened while I was in a photo class in college. A student put RC paper in a ferrotyping dryer and it melted on the drum. The teacher took a long time removing the plastic off the drum. The dryer was huge and required maintenance. Besides RC prints, an under washed print can mess up a clean canvas on the dryer.

Jessestr · Feb 23, 2016

I still wonder why people print glossy though, but like really glossy. I unserstand it has a higher DMAX and better tonal range from reading... but when you look at it, the light sources bounce of it and you always see reflections of everything... That's actually the reason why I never print glossy.

MattKing · Feb 23, 2016

Jessestr said:
I still wonder why people print glossy though, but like really glossy. I unserstand it has a higher DMAX and better tonal range from reading... but when you look at it, the light sources bounce of it and you always see reflections of everything... That's actually the reason why I never print glossy.

It really suits certain subjects:

Sirius Glass · Feb 23, 2016

Jessestr said:
I still wonder why people print glossy though, but like really glossy. I unserstand it has a higher DMAX and better tonal range from reading... but when you look at it, the light sources bounce of it and you always see reflections of everything... That's actually the reason why I never print glossy.

If you move a little bit then the reflection does not appear on the print.

Jessestr · Feb 23, 2016

Thanks! Maybe I should try out glossy fiber and see what I think of it. Will start off with Adox MCC... They do not seem to have warmtone, but it says tone: neutral to slightly warmtone. Will the toners that I use be visible on this?

spijker · Feb 23, 2016

Adox variotone wt is a beautiful warmtone fb paper. It tones very nice in selenium toner. Warm aanbevolen dus.

Menno

R.Gould · Feb 24, 2016

Jessestr said:
Thanks! Maybe I should try out glossy fiber and see what I think of it. Will start off with Adox MCC... They do not seem to have warmtone, but it says tone: neutral to slightly warmtone. Will the toners that I use be visible on this?

As a user of Adox MCC paper the choice of developer make a difference, if I want a warmtone print I use Fotospeed w/t 10 developer, develop fpr 4 minutes at a 1/29 dilution and the paper is as warm as Ilford W/T paper, if not slightly warmer, develop in a standard developer and it is somewhere between MG Classic and MG Warmtone, as far as toning.I have only used it in sepia, used the bleach and toner at 1/2 strength.that is 1/20 instead of 1/9, and it tones beautifully
Richard

Jessestr · Feb 24, 2016

R.Gould said:
As a user of Adox MCC paper the choice of developer make a difference, if I want a warmtone print I use Fotospeed w/t 10 developer, develop fpr 4 minutes at a 1/29 dilution and the paper is as warm as Ilford W/T paper, if not slightly warmer, develop in a standard developer and it is somewhere between MG Classic and MG Warmtone, as far as toning.I have only used it in sepia, used the bleach and toner at 1/2 strength.that is 1/20 instead of 1/9, and it tones beautifully
Richard

Great! I'll check it out since I can get Adox boxes of 5 sheets (fotoimpex.de) ... easy to try out. So why do you use the toner at halve strength? Probably getting Moersch Selenium toner. Other toners I do not really like. The bleach looks nice though for the highlights.

R.Gould · Feb 24, 2016

Jessestr said:
Great! I'll check it out since I can get Adox boxes of 5 sheets (fotoimpex.de) ... easy to try out. So why do you use the toner at halve strength? Probably getting Moersch Selenium toner. Other toners I do not really like. The bleach looks nice though for the highlights.

I really only use Sepia toner and I find that I get better control of the bleaching process with half strength, and I like the amount of finished tone at half strength, I use Fomatoner sepia now, but I have used this method for over 20 years with toners made by Fotospeed,Tetenal and others, and on many papers both FB and RC, although there are really only 2 RC papers over this side that tone well, Kentmere and Fotospeed RCVC paper, with FB I have used this way with Adox and Agfa, from which Adox paper came from, also Ilford MG Classic and Fomatone, it gives me the control over the depth of the tone that I am after.
Richard

spijker · Feb 24, 2016

I've recently done some printing with Adox MCC110 paper and Adox MCC developer. The prints have a neutral black tone, no hint of green as I've seen with other papers. Kodak Selenium toner (1+9, 5 min) deepens the blacks further but the overall tone remains the same. I haven't tried other developers yet with this paper.

Menno

xtolsniffer · Feb 26, 2016

I did agonise over papers types when I got back into working in the darkroom after a long absence. The trouble with papers surfaces and finishes is that by the time you have multiple sizes in multiple finishes and multiple types you have a darkroom full of the stuff (not to mention the cost). I really tried to like fibre, I really did, but never got on with Ilford fibre gloss. The long washing times and the effort of trying to get it flat, and no matter what I tried, mounting was always a pain and left it wrinkled. I know that with effort I could have got better results but my time in the darkroom is limited so long washing, long drying and long finishing never really worked for me. After a few years of working with different papers I've gravitated towards two types, Ilford RC gloss and Ilford Warmtone in pearl finish. The gloss can cause problems with reflections but as it dries so flat, any reflections when mounted are not a problem as you easily move the angle of light or viewing angle. The pearl finish for me works better with warmtone, though it's also a nice finish in standard RC. I don't know what the satin finish is like as I haven't seen that.

Fibre gloss vs RC gloss

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