Fibre base paper finished as smooth as smooth can be...

Nicole · Apr 18, 2006

with no waves, no ripples and no kinks.... so what's the trick for a professional, archival, perfectly flat clean finish?

Cheers, Nicole

noseoil · Apr 18, 2006

Simple solution is the dry mount press. The paper changes its form somewhat in water, so the best way to flatten it is with a heated press. This re-aligns the fibers (sorry, fibres) again and flattens things back into shape. Dry mounting on a good quality mat board will keep things that way. Best, tim

P.S. More money!

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 18, 2006

I flatten in a drymount press. If you hinge mount and leave a wide border for matting, the print will stay pretty flat, but eventually humidity will cause it to curl a bit.

Drymounting looks good and keeps the print flat, but conservators consider it harder to reverse than other methods like hinge or corner mounting.

The compromise that I'm looking into is starch mounting, which is explained in Reilly's albumen printing book, which you can download from albumen.stanford.com. This was a common 19th-century method for flat mounting (prints were mounted while still damp), and is easily reversed by putting the print and mount in a tray of distilled water, and today there are modern materials for archival starch mounting.

Timothy · Apr 18, 2006

Another method that is not used much any more these days is callled "Ferrotype", which is odd because it does not involve iron. The basic idea is to use a large roller to flatten a wet fiber-based print, face down, against the highly polished "Ferrotype" sheet of metal. These sheets are sold today on the B&H website and a few other places. However, you will notice as soon as you look into this method, that it has a bad reputation. The prints will sometimes bond to the surface so that when they are dry, you cannot remove them without the emulsion sticking to the metallic surface. There is all kind of discussion about polishes and beeswax and incantations under a full moon ...yadayada, to prevent this from happening. There is a simple solution though. The plates sold on B&H and elsewhere are stainless steel, the original ones were Chrome-plated Brass. Believe me, it makes a big difference. No polishing or coating is neccessary on a chrome plate if it is clean and has no scrathes or pitting.
The effect is stunning. The Dmax is improved by the glazed, mirror like finish and the print is really flat.

Tim R

Dave Miller · Apr 18, 2006

Nicole, firstly thanks for that clucking Easter e-card, it raised a smile.
As to flattening prints, another method to those described is to use the watercolour artists method and tape the wet print to a sheet of glass, and let it air dry. The method works well, if a small number of prints are involved, and it has been discussed here in the past. For myself I place my (dry) prints in an artists sketch pad, and place that under a weight for a week or so. This gets them to a state where they are flat enough to dry mount, using a hand iron.

wfe · Apr 18, 2006

Nicole, I think you already know how I handle mine. Hot press to flatten them and then dry mounted.

dancqu · Apr 18, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
... and today there are modern materials
for archival starch mounting.

Modern for archival. That's the part which
bothers me. Almost a contradiction in terms.

Starch is made up of long chains of glucose
molecules. Just add water and you've sugar.
Perhaps a glue of gelatin type would work
well. After all silver-gelatin. Dan

ricksplace · Apr 18, 2006

I use an Arkay Dual-Dry print dryer. It has a big chrome drum that heats up. A canvas conveyor carries the print through rollers and onto the drum. The prints go in soft and wet and come out hard and dry. Unlike bubble gum (old joke -what is pink, goes in hard and dry and comes out soft and wet?). They are big beasties often for sale on ebay for cheap, but the shipping will kill ya. Weighs about 100 pounds and handles 20X24. Only works for fibre.

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 19, 2006

dancqu said:
Modern for archival. That's the part which
bothers me. Almost a contradiction in terms.

Starch is made up of long chains of glucose
molecules. Just add water and you've sugar.
Perhaps a glue of gelatin type would work
well. After all silver-gelatin. Dan

Modern wheat starch is not too different from 19th-century starch--just acid free and a more consistent product. Reilly mentions other types of adhesive used in the 19th-century, and I think the issue with a gelatin based adhesive would be non-reversability.

antielectrons · Apr 19, 2006

Nicole said:
with no waves, no ripples and no kinks.... so what's the trick for a professional, archival, perfectly flat clean finish?

Cheers, Nicole

Nicole, I just put my prints under several heavy dictionaries/encyclopedias about 80% of the way through the drying process. i.e. when prints are dry to touch but still a bit damp. I leave them there 12 or so hours and they come out perfectly flat.

p krentz · Apr 19, 2006

I have used the wheat starch on color/rc paper and it holds well, about 20 years now, one of the old ways was to use 10-12% glycerine? in the final soak and it relaxes the fibers so that they lay flat, you have to be careful about the amount because it can interfere with bonding. Pat

dancqu · Apr 22, 2006

p krentz said:
I have used the wheat starch

Wheat starch. Very recommended. Visit www.nedcc.org
At search enter: starch paste; humidification; homemade .
Matting and a whole bunch of info. For themselves at least,
Sticky on body of work is a NO NO. Dan

dancqu · Apr 23, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
The compromise that I'm looking into is starch mounting,
which is explained in Reilly's albumen printing book, which
you can download from albumen.stanford.com. This was
a common 19th-century method for flat mounting (prints
were mounted while still damp), and is easily reversed
by putting the print and mount in a tray of distilled
water, and today there are modern materials for
archival starch mounting.

Perhaps no compromise at all. After years of finding a
little time now and then to spend in the lab I feel ready
to consider mounting. I gave the albumen site a read.
With what they say there and at the site to which I
pointed in my previous post, It looks like a winner.

Starch Paste. The starch can be bought from sources
of Conservator supplies. The paste is to be made fresh
and used so. I like the "mounted while still damp". My
Blotter Stack with Corrugated Board way of drying
may fit right in. Dan

Fibre base paper finished as smooth as smooth can be...

Nicole

noseoil

David A. Goldfarb

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Timothy

Dave Miller

wfe

dancqu

ricksplace

David A. Goldfarb

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antielectrons

p krentz

dancqu

dancqu

Fibre base paper finished as smooth as smooth can be...

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