Fiber Paper

lee · Dec 8, 2003

I have tried to keep notes but it boils down to how I learned. I don't have to print someones reorder where it is critical that the prints match and I do sometimes change a lot of stuff in the print from the last time I print a particular negative. I do keep a work print and on the back I will note the type of paper it is and the hard time and the soft time if split printing and the dry down % but that is about all the note keeping I do. I make a new test print if I want to reprint the negative.

I have tried to keep better notes but I just ain't that kinda guy. But like you Michael, I would be interested in what everyone else does.

lee\c

Alex Hawley · Dec 8, 2003

I keep notes but not nearly as extensive. I use a condenser enlarger so none of the cold light settings apply. If using MG paper, I note the filter used. I keep my toner dilutions standard so I just tone until it looks the same as the original.

photomc · Dec 8, 2003

Since I have really just got back into the darkroom, I'm just starting to get a feel for what I do. Right now I try to take a work print, on the back write down the enlarger ht., lens settings, in filter (dichro head), base exposure time, notes on dodge/burn, paper, toner, etc. Will have to see later if these notes indeed help or if I can move them on to a notebook and start getting the negatives organized as well.

Whew...who knew that there was all this fun in the darkroom!

ann · Dec 8, 2003

I keep very detailed notes as well and encourage my student to do so. We have about 5 0r 6 types of printing maps that people can use , sits at the work station and easy to jot down as they go, or jog down information on the back of the paper before development. (work prints only.)

I have a large presentation easel that sits outside the darkroom door and have taken to jotting notes on that for myself.

I have my little "black book" that I transfer info to once I am satisfied.

Re-printed a negative earlier this year that was last printed in 1966. Altho, the paper type and developer was different ; I started with the same basic formula used at that time. Made a 4 sec. adjustment and that was all there was to the reprint.
I hate note keeping, but love the pay off with the time it saves. Hard to believe it does but that what happens

blansky · Dec 8, 2003

I have posted one of my data sheets in the non gallery picture section.
This is what I use for finished prints. I just use a stenographers pad for proofs and RC prints which just consists of neg#, Magenta#, height, fstop and time.

This sheet I kind of adapter from Fred Pickers design.

The boxes are to draw in the picture to show dodging and burning areas with the times.

I just made the sheet on the computer and print when I need them.

Michael McBlane

Jeremy · Dec 9, 2003

I haven't previously kept printing records, but I also haven't seriously printed any of my images. As I'm planning to spend more time and effort in the darkroom once this this academic year is over I will be creating my own record sheets.

An additional question (which probably needs its own post) is what kind of/if any records to you make/keep of the initial negative exposure? I have taken to writing the date and developer on my print file sleeves, but don't doing anything beyond that.

Donald Miller · Dec 9, 2003

I keep detailed records of every image that I anticipate reprinting...I include the size, paper grade, developer, time of development/details of developer(s), date of last printing, burning, and dodging times and contrast grades if applicable .

As I change sizes from 8X10 to 11X14 or 16X20 etc. I update my records to include the new size and all pertinant data relating to the new size. I didn't do that for a long time. I have since found that I don't have the time to do the whole shebang all over again every time that I print.

Insofar as records on exposures. I keep records of number and date of exposure, SBR or low and high values if spot metering, indicated development time, lens, aperture, filter/filter factor, and shutter speed. This allows me to catch any discrepencies before they become epidemic.

Ole · Dec 9, 2003

I'm terrible at keeping notes. I have tried, but then every once a while...

Last week I tried repeating a print I last made in 1994, but on a different paper, to a different size. I remembered there was a lot of burning on this neg, something like eight separate steps for up to three full stops. Of cours the notes I meticulously made are probably on the bottom of one of the boxes in the attic - I don't know, since I didn't bother to search for them.

Put the neg in the enlarger, adjusted the size. Had a good look at it. Measured the highlights and shadows with my EM10, referred to my paper speed table.

Put a sheet of paper in the easel. 8 seconds base exposure, burn one stop there, burn 1½ stops there, a little bit there, "close" the edges by one stop, touch up that corner, add a little to the sky... Then into the developer.

No it wasn't identical to the old print. I'd say it was better

Ed Sukach · Dec 9, 2003

blansky said:
Lee, I'm surprised you don't keep notes.
I keep date, exposure#, paper, size,...
.... months later, I could get exactly the same or very close. It sure takes less time than starting over from the beginning.
I wonder what everyone else does.

I also keep extensive records. Rarely... possibly, one or two percent of these will actually be useful in the future ... but when they are needed they are a blessing. They are *most* useful for the images where the Color Analyzer could not really be used; an example would be - a photograph taken by someone else, on a local beach, shortly after dawn - on Kodak "Gold 200" - a film I don't use.

With *no* idea of where the color balance should be - I happened to "hit" a proper balance on the fourth trial print - that is called "luck". I'll carve this information in stone, with a chisel, if need be - in case another print is requested.

David Ruby · Dec 9, 2003

I'm starting to take notes now too. I use a cheap notebook from the grocery store. For each session I note the date, the negative sleeve number (so I can find that neg again), the f-stop, size of print (instead of enlarger height which would probably be better!), filter used, and the time.

Since I'm really learning as I go, I make numerous prints and note each of them. Once I get a base print I then start messing with it a bit. Lately, I work until I get a base print then wait a few days so I can stare at it hanging on the wall for awhild. Then I look to crop or burn/dodge it as needed to help it. Then I can make notes.

I used to make notes on the print but always forgot since I could't do it when they were wet and didn't do it at a later time. This seems to work for now.

For those who take great notes, is the reason just so you can save time later, or do some (or most) of you also print as business as opposed to a hobby (reprints etc.)?

blansky · Dec 9, 2003

David:

I don't think it matters if you are amateur or pro. Taking notes saves tons of time. Also, lets say you toned a print, and you like the look, and want to duplicate the look a few months later. The notes tell you what paper you used, what brand ( they all tone differently) what toner and even what developer.

As I've stated before Zonal Pro warmtone developer gives a nice warmtone print with ILMG FB WT after it has been toned in selenuim. If I didn't originally make notes it may take a while and a lot of paper to figure it out again.

When using different developers and papers there are so many variations that you can never remember them.

Also burning and dodging. Extensive notes can save tons of time and money.

My advice set up a system, maybe like the sheet I mentioned previously, stick to it and it will save you untold time and money. Besides it only takes a few seconds to do.

Michael McBlane

Jim Chinn · Dec 9, 2003

I keep a running set of notes or logs in spiral notebooks as I work in the darkroom. they contain information on printing, developing film, film tests, paper and developer tests etc. I also include notes on problems solutions etc. i have about 20 of these and it is fun to look through the ones from about 10 years ago and see how much I have learned.

After I get a print or a couple variations of a print done, I will take one dried print and transfer all information to the back. Paper, developer and dilution, exposure, times, filter, enlarger height, negative # etc. On the print side I will use a marker to show areas that need dodging and burning and related +or- Fstops.

I also have a set of "template" negatives that i have used for several years to test paper, developers, toners, bleaching techniques, flashing etc. I have a couple of binders with about 60 prints with various combos of paper, developer, toner etc. I just make it a point if I try something new that I always make a print from that negative first thing.

Jim Chinn · Dec 9, 2003

I keep a running set of notes or logs in spiral notebooks as I work in the darkroom. they contain information on printing, developing film, film tests, paper and developer tests etc. I also include notes on problems solutions etc. i have about 20 of these and it is fun to look through the ones from about 10 years ago and see how much I have learned.

After I get a print or a couple variations of a print done, I will take one dried print and transfer all information to the back. Paper, developer and dilution, exposure, times, filter, enlarger height, negative # etc. On the print side I will use a marker to show areas that need dodging and burning and related +or- Fstops.

I also have a set of "template" negatives that i have used for several years to test paper, developers, toners, bleaching techniques, flashing etc. I have a couple of binders with about 60 prints with various combos of paper, developer, toner etc. I just make it a point if I try something new that I always make a print from that negative first thing.

Konical · Dec 9, 2003

As several posters have indicated, keeping notes can be very helpful in saving both time and money. When printing, I just use a Sharpie pen and summarize exposure/paper/lens/enlarger height/filter/burning/dodging data on the back of the contact sheet--another good reason for having contact sheets.
In addition, with some tricky subjects (night shots especially) I put the critical data on the edge of the film so that I can easily refer to it for a potential similar subject in the future. There's not a lot of blank space on the edge of 4 x 5 film, but there's enough for date, lens used, developer, time of development, exposure time and f-stop. Just use India ink and a fine-tipped pen. Sharpies won't work well for this; the ink is not opaque enough to read easily on the contact sheet.
I also use the India ink/pen for basic data on 35mm and roll film. Usually there's enough blank space at one end of the roll or the other to write on.

Konical

dsisaacs · Aug 28, 2005

I like the sound of your print drying method. Do you dry mount your prints or are they flat enough from this drying method to hinge to the mat?

Annemarieke said:
David,
I use mostly fiber paper, because I love it so much and there is a lot more tone between white and black than in RC paper. I use RC paper only to proof print.

For drying I use sheets of glass on which I tape the fiber prints with 'water colour tape' (paper tape that sticks when wet). I leave an extra wide white border in order to be able to stick them down with the tape (overlap of about 2 cm).

However, I don't stick the prints down immediately, but wait approximately half an hour after I have smoothed the prints down on the glass plate with a shammy. This is to avoid that the paper rips the tape (fiber paper is stronger than tape, and also shrinks whilst drying), and curling like h***!

Good luck!
Anne Marieke

PeterB · Oct 25, 2005

lee said:
One thing I find important when finishing the wash process is I take all the prints that day and one at a time I squeegee front and back on a heavy piece of glass then I lay the prints face down on the fiberglass screening.

A question for Lee and others, can a squeegee damage the wet emulsion of a FB print?
I'm about to switch from using RC to FB and while surveying the print drying threads, notice that many people use a squeegee.

PeterB · Oct 25, 2005

I forgot to also ask whether the type of squeegee I use is important. E.g. the following from Patterson is labelled "RC print squeegee"

http://www.photococan.com/itm00638.htm

or is the following more appropriate for FB paper?

Dead Link Removed

thanks

Peter

lee · Oct 25, 2005

be careful and you will be ok I have a squeegee I bought years ago but I would use a wiper blade from an auto if I needed one now. I use a large piece of glass to squeegee on also and do both sides then they go on a screen for drying and I dont fool with them again till the next day.

lee\c

PeterB · Oct 26, 2005

lee said:
be careful and you will be ok

Is it obvious if I haven't been careful, or will I only find out in 20 years time?
thanks
Peter

Ole · Oct 26, 2005

PeterB said:
I forgot to also ask whether the type of squeegee I use is important. ...

Mine is a rear window wiper off a 1984 Fiat Uno. No scratches seen (yet)!

Mick Fagan · Oct 26, 2005

Well I use RC paper for 99.9% of my work.

This came about through printing around 300 different B&W prints a day. All sized to an advertising layout. This changed in the late seventies to colour reversal prints from mostly 120 trannies. These prints were then pasted up by the graphic artists for reproduction shooting of each page for catalogue work.

Pretty hard and demanding, the EM10 enlarging meter is a Godsend for this kind of printing.

From there I progressed to larger stuff, sometimes mural work.

Basically, though the printing sessions were intense and although we pushed out mountains of work, quality was always an issue as the catalogues were perused by all of the industry.

This meant that my own darkroom ended being set up like my work, with a print dryer, which will take B&W paper, colour negative paper EP2 & RA4, Lith film and Duratrans. Not cibachrome, or any other plastic based colour emulsion though.

Last weekend I printed about 40 8x10" B&W prints. Tomorrow I have to do some RA4 8x10" and 12x16" prints of a motorcycle.

This amount of work going through means that when I do fibre prints, relatively speaking, I come to a standstill. I do appreciate the difference between RC & fibre based prints but I'm so used to pushing through prints and I'm not ready to slow down, yet.

I also understand quality versus quantity, believe it or not!

Mick.

Fiber Paper

lee

Alex Hawley

photomc

ann

blansky

Jeremy

Donald Miller

Ole

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Jim Chinn

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Konical

dsisaacs

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lee

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Ole

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