fiber paper dryer textile?

In our darkroom there is a large fiberpaper dryer. I dont know its name or model but It has a large drum on which the paper is pressed when fed from underneath and it circulates around the drum and is spit out from the top to draw you a picture..

Anyway, the textile on which the paper is put with the image towards is making very small "seam marks"; so I was wondering how I can get around that basically. I thought that if I could get a decent textile, I could make a square out of it and put that in between the dryers textile and my picture or is that a bad idea? Is there some special textile I should look fore then??

Is the fabric belt tension adjustable? It might be too tight and pressing the paper too hard.

I have a couple of similar fabric dryers the fabric may be a basic light canvas material, possibly cotton, something with a fine weave. Some women understand fabrics better than us men, perhaps there is one you could ask to advise you about the type of fabric that has a flat weave so that the "seam marks" are minimized.

It is indeed adjustable, sounds like a good to check! I though that it might be out of old age and so on but perhaps not.

But if someone knows a good material to use, I might get it anyway... still many who could possibly change any adjustements I do anyway!

I replaced mine with canvas from an art supplier. They have different sorts for paintings in oil and acrylic. Take one without coating, wash it several times rather hot and sew you own.

hth
horst

I have one of those flip-flop canvas dryers. I removed the canvas and washed it... then I cut a piece of canvas to fit the plate. So I put a print on the plate, lay the loose canvas over it, and then close it up with the tensioned canvas. This makes a bit tighter fit, and I can wash or replace the loose canvas easily if I ever need to. Perhaps something like that would work, if you could add canvas vs. replacing it? Sleeving the print in blotter paper could also be a possibility - fold a sheet in half and tuck the print into it?

"Blotting paper" is that perhaps what you would use in a paper press? I know there was some special white paper-ish sheet which is used in the paper press.

In terms of the textile; I have found a "strong" canvas textile in a local store, but how do I know if it's coated? And what is the problem if it is?

White Muslin or the equivalent is what you need. White meaning unbleachd.

In the large rotary print driers there is necessarily one seam that extends from edge to edge of the fabric. If it is that the seam that is troubling you, avoid laying a print on it when loading the drier. If it is the overall texture of the fabric, I've never seen this give trouble on a rotary drier and non-glossy photo paper. If you are printing with glossy paper, it might best be loaded face up so the image faces the surface of the drum. Drying glossy prints this way on these driers is not foolproof.

rubbernglue said:

In terms of the textile; I have found a "strong" canvas textile in a local store, but how do I know if it's coated? And what is the problem if it is?

Click to expand...

If you buy canvas from an art store (or online art supplier), it's either raw (no coating) or primed with white paint.

scheimfluger_77 said:

White Muslin or the equivalent is what you need. White meaning unbleachd.

Click to expand...

Actually - at least where I live - "unbleached muslin" has a slight warm tint to it; white muslin is bleached to pure white. We use unbleached muslin in film/video as a warm bounce, it's very common.

Jim Jones said:

In the large rotary print driers there is necessarily one seam that extends from edge to edge of the fabric.

Click to expand...

As rotary dryers were a rarity over here: how is that seem designed?
These dryers were intended for, or at least used commercially, thus hardly any lab technician would have bothered to insert a print with care to avoid the print coming in contact with that seem.

Textile science is complex.
Fibres such as cotton and linen, natural fibres, are still processed and given finishing treatments once woven into fabric. It depends on the fibres, and the treatment, and what the fabric is intended for.

The processing treatment is known as sizing. In most cases, with cotton, it should be washed out before the material is used. Some of the stuff used in processing cotton material is really nasty - formaldehyde, for instance. So it was some time ago, at least, when I was working with textiles. I have no idea if it is still used to treat cotton material, but I suspect it is in some instances. What I do know is that with any newly purchased cotton fabrics or garments, I will wash them before use. The smell of sizing is strong, at least to me. It also leaves a certain feel to the fabric itself, stiff and unpleasant.

I do not know if linen fibres and fabrics are subjected to the same treatment when being processed and woven for market.

What does this have to do with material intended for use for drying a fibre print?

Well, just as I will wash a fibre print to remove all trace of fix, I want to make sure the fabric on the print dryer has no residual chemicals in it. Cotton and linen are going to be the preferred fabrics for print driers, in my opinion, for several reasons. They will tolerate higher heat, linen especially, unlike synthetics, and they can be washed at high temperatures, to clean them. Both linen and cotton can be washed - boiled - at 100°C. They will be disinfected as well.

When washing any fabric intended to be used on a print drier, it seems to me that several things need to be considered. If a washing agent is used, it needs to be as neutral as possible, no perfumes, and no fabric softener. Getting the material rinsed as thoroughly as possible is the same thing as removing all traces of fix from a print. You don't want any of that crap remaining, ever.

Type of weave, weight of fabric, all of it is to be considered. I am not familliar with the canvas type fabrics that have been discussed here, so I cannot weigh in on them. In our community darkroom we have a Keinzle print dryer, and the material is a light weight satin weave, probably cotton, as it does fluff and leave annoying fibre particles on prints, still after several years. The satin weave is one that leaves a relatively smooth appearing surface, as opposed to a box weave, chevron, and many others.

I don't know if this is of any help, except to at least stress, please be carefull when washing fabrics that are to be used in print drying. Consider the procedure to be of the same importance as washing your prints. Heat coupled with residual chemicals are relentlessly unforgiving. Fabric softener is an abomination, just do not use it - ever, if possible.

I have tried and loosened the tension a little bit and it is indeed better, but not really good enough. And also, there are seams that have been torn and there are parts of thread here and there which really cannot be very good for pressing delicate paper with the intension of not getting marks...

If not this very model, it is very close to the one we have - but the one we have is very well used!



The second picture shows when the bed is out and one can just about see these small lines of seam on the textile which is my very problem.

If I could at least get my hands on some of that uncoated material then I could try and see if it works I suppose.

M Carter said:

...Actually - at least where I live - "unbleached muslin" has a slight warm tint to it; white muslin is bleached to pure white. We use unbleached muslin in film/video as a warm bounce, it's very common.

Click to expand...

You are correct, I got my terms tangled.

rubbernglue said:

In our darkroom there is a large fiberpaper dryer. I dont know its name or model but It has a large drum on which the paper is pressed when fed from underneath and it circulates around the drum and is spit out from the top to draw you a picture..

Anyway, the textile on which the paper is put with the image towards is making very small "seam marks"; so I was wondering how I can get around that basically. I thought that if I could get a decent textile, I could make a square out of it and put that in between the dryers textile and my picture or is that a bad idea? Is there some special textile I should look fore then??

Click to expand...

If it's a Pako dryer, you can still get belts. I have a couple Pakomax table top units. I called Pakor in Minnesota. They still have a supplier. I love drum dryers.

Also I avoid laying paper over the seem where the belt is sewn together.

rubbernglue said:

I have tried and loosened the tension a little bit and it is indeed better, but not really good enough. And also, there are seams that have been torn and there are parts of thread here and there which really cannot be very good for pressing delicate paper with the intension of not getting marks...

If not this very model, it is very close to the one we have - but the one we have is very well used!
View attachment 211721

View attachment 211722
The second picture shows when the bed is out and one can just about see these small lines of seam on the textile which is my very problem.

If I could at least get my hands on some of that uncoated material then I could try and see if it works I suppose.

Click to expand...

I see now, that's nothing like the belts on my Pako units. This may have been used only for ferrotyping glossy prints . My belts are very smooth unbleached canvas.

rubbernglue said:

In our darkroom there is a large fiberpaper dryer.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a shared darkroom. What I would be worried about is more contamination. It takes just one sloppy user in a hurry to contaminate the belt with fixer, and then your prints also.

bernard_L said:

Sounds like a shared darkroom. What I would be worried about is more contamination. It takes just one sloppy user in a hurry to contaminate the belt with fixer, and then your prints also.

Click to expand...

Exactly, and a very good reason to have som textile of my own to use in between.

AgX said:

As rotary dryers were a rarity over here: how is that seem designed?
These dryers were intended for, or at least used commercially, thus hardly any lab technician would have bothered to insert a print with care to avoid the print coming in contact with that seem.

Click to expand...

Oh yes we did, our dryer had a mark on the side of the belt so that we knew when the seam was coming up! It was only important when drying matte finish prints which were placed face down, glossy prints faced the drum. I dried thousands of single weight glossy and double weight matte prints on that big old Pako. Glossy face up after a bath in Pakosol, matte face down onto the belt.

rubbernglue said:

In our darkroom there is a large fiberpaper dryer. I dont know its name or model but It has a large drum on which the paper is pressed when fed from underneath and it circulates around the drum and is spit out from the top to draw you a picture..

Anyway, the textile on which the paper is put with the image towards is making very small "seam marks"; so I was wondering how I can get around that basically. I thought that if I could get a decent textile, I could make a square out of it and put that in between the dryers textile and my picture or is that a bad idea? Is there some special textile I should look fore then??

Click to expand...

Are you using a hardening fixer, one of the few applications where a hardened emulsion is pretty important. If you are using a flat bed dryer you may also have the apron tension set too high.

I think we use the ilford rapid fixer, but I am not perfectly sure. Yes the tension was changed a bit as I wrote before, and it got better but not really good enough.

rubbernglue said:

I think we use the ilford rapid fixer, but I am not perfectly sure. Yes the tension was changed a bit as I wrote before, and it got better but not really good enough.

Click to expand...

Ilford Rapid Fixer is non-hardening and Ilford says you cannot add a hardener. You may want to contact Harman/Ilford technical services. Back in the good old days we used Kodak Fixer, the commercial version of Kodak F5, washed our prints in a Pako tumbling washer (I think California Stainless still makes this washer), we often washed our first batch over the lunch hour, final bath in Pakosol, and then onto the dryer belt. We used Kodak F, N, and A (A was a lightweight paper) surfaces a lot but used various papers in G, M, and X surfaces, too.