FG7 Shelf life

Eric Mac · Feb 11, 2006

A year ago, (hmm, maybe it was two) I bought a bottle of FG7 to push a couple rolls for a hockey game I was attending. The pictures came out fine at 800. This week I read using FG7 with sodium sulfite, I could shoot my HP5 at 400 instead of the 200 I've shooting it in HC110b.

I guess FG7 doesn't have the shelf life of HC110 as I don't recall shooting the entire roll inside a darkened cave. The roll was blank. Although I've avoided chasing the magic bullet, the time I try I get burned.

For the Chicago Auto show next week, I better use that Neopan 1600 I been meaning to try. And it will be in HC110, so I know that stuff is good.

I can't wait to try my Tylodinal experiment.

Eric

pelerin · Feb 11, 2006

Eric Mac said:
A year ago, (hmm, maybe it was two) I bought a bottle of FG7 to push a couple rolls for a hockey game I was attending. The pictures came out fine at 800. This week I read using FG7 with sodium sulfite, I could shoot my HP5 at 400 instead of the 200 I've shooting it in HC110b.

I guess FG7 doesn't have the shelf life of HC110 as I don't recall shooting the entire roll inside a darkened cave. The roll was blank. Although I've avoided chasing the magic bullet, the time I try I get burned.

For the Chicago Auto show next week, I better use that Neopan 1600 I been meaning to try. And it will be in HC110, so I know that stuff is good.

I can't wait to try my Tylodinal experiment.

Eric

Hey,
What color was the stuff? Did any of the edge coding show? While I don't think that FG7 + sulfite = magic bullet, FG7 is a nice developer. It seems a little premature to dismiss it if all you did was use a bottle of dead developer. But hey, if you think 110/b looks cool on 1600 film, then that's ok too.
Celac.

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 12, 2006

I've used Edwal FG and found it to be a nice - General Purpose Fine Grain Developer. My experience with adding sodium sulfite showed that this resulted in a drop in acutance - I saw no speed increase.

Some folks have speculated that adding Vitamin C to FG7 (instead of sodium sulfite) might produce a speed increase.

If I was going for maximum speed with Neopan 1600 or 400 I would develop it in Ilford Microphen, Ilford DDX or 510-Pyro. As it turns out, I will be developing some Neopan 1600 in a few days. I figure I should expect an ISO of about 3200 in Microphen and something pretty close to that in 510-Pyro.

The Ilford ID-68 recipe (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Will produce an excellent mix-it-yourself substitue for Microphen

pelerin · Feb 12, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
I've used Edwal FG and found it to be a nice - General Purpose Fine Grain Developer. My experience with adding sodium sulfite showed that this resulted in a drop in acutance - I saw no speed increase.

Some folks have speculated that adding Vitamin C to FG7 (instead of sodium sulfite) might produce a speed increase.

If I was going for maximum speed with Neopan 1600 or 400 I would develop it in Ilford Microphen, Ilford DDX or 510-Pyro. As it turns out, I will be developing some Neopan 1600 in a few days. I figure I should expect an ISO of about 3200 in Microphen and something pretty close to that in 510-Pyro.

The addition of sulfite is supposed to engender physical development and Edwal's published times show comparable EI's at shorter times than without the sulfite. Some might see lowered accutance as less "grainy" and consider that a positive for push processing. I personally like neopan 1600 in Rodinal at 1/3 stop under 1600. I do think it is difficult to comment on the inherent properties of a developer when you don't get any image. FWIW, FG7 keeps much better if you decant the plastic container into smaller glass bottles. e.g., 1qt FG7 into two brown glass pints, use one then the other.
Celac

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 12, 2006

You said "Some might see lowered accutance as less "grainy" and consider that a positive for push processing." Could be, but I don't consider it a positive.

With Sulfited FG7, I saw lowered acutance and "softer grain" with Tri-X.

I was comparing the Sulfited FG7 results against Tri-X developed in Rodinal. I strongly preferred the Rodinal/Tri-X results.

I also tried sulfited Rodinal and didn't like that look, either.

Eric Mac · Feb 12, 2006

Thanks for all the replies. The key is never use untested/old developer on anything important. Fortunately, I don't think there was anything vital on that roll. I have been using HC110 since returning to the darkroom 4 years ago and know that stuff lasts forever.

I am not against FG7 and will probably take another try when the Hc110 runs out, but more mad at myself for probably knowing better than to use old chemistry.

Eric

craigclu · Feb 12, 2006

I used FG7 quite happily for many years and preferred it without the SS addition. As posted in a previous reply, the concentrate is very long lived if you decant to smaller glass bottles. One of their technical people promoted that when I called there for information. It can discolor and still function normally and I don't recall an outright failure after many years of using it. It certainly seems to be the case in your situation and was perhaps oxidized after that period of time as stored.

Gerald Koch · Feb 13, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
Some folks have speculated that adding Vitamin C to FG7 (instead of sodium sulfite) might produce a speed increase.

You never want to add vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to any developer as the acidity will stop or seriously diminish the activity of the developer. People have tried adding vitamin C to Rodinal and found to their dismay that the combination doesn't work. However, you can safely add sodium ascorbate to developers or you can neutralize the acidity of ascorbic acid before adding it.

Lee Shively · Feb 13, 2006

FG7 has a very, very long shelf life. At the paper where I once worked, we discovered a long forgotten box with several unopened bottles of the stuff and decided to try it out. It had to have been stored for a number of years because no one there could remember ever using it and the chief photographer did not remember ever buying it. It dated from the days of a previous, retired chief photographer. We mixed it with sulfite and tried it out and it worked perfectly. We liked it enough to use it for almost everything after that.

I would guess a partially filled bottle would last for several months. After a year, it's probably lost a good bit of its potency. Totally blank film is troublesome, however. Exhausted developer usually produces a faint image at least.

Gerald Koch · Feb 13, 2006

When I was in college, many years ago, A friend used it replenished. A thick layer of crud would develop in the bottom of the bottle after use but the stuff seemed to last forever with regular use.

FG7 Shelf life

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