Ferric Oxalate

[roy]

I was wondering whether members using this chemical for their alt.process printing make it or buy it in for the sheer convenience and reliability of purity.

 

[efikim]

I was planning to buy it when I move on from doing Vandyke Browns, but I'm not ready to move on yet. However 'buying it' doesn't seem to be an easy option in the UK! Do you have a supplier in mind; IIRC I couldn't find one.

 

[Stan. L-B]

Roy & Mike.
It is some time since I was in alternative process mode but for whats it's worth it was always used ready made. I had a very sympathetic chemist at the time so no problems in getting it fresh. You will know that the shelf life is quite limited about three months, so it is always necessary to make a test strip. It should be mixed at least 12 hour before use. Another very friendly chemist that you probably know of is, Dr Mike Ware at www.mikeware.demon.co.uk. Best wishes.

 

[colrehogan]

I just tried my first alternative process print last weekend and it worked great. I did a Ziatype. I bought the kit from Bostick & Sullivan in NM. (I know, not UK, but that's where I got it nevertheless).

 

[roy]

Diane, are you going to post it into the gallery ? Glad you achieved a good result.

 

[roy]

so no problems in getting it fresh.

It is possible to make it yourself but I suspect that unless you want to put yourself to the test, ready made would be more convenient and reliable. I was just wondering whether many people bothered to make it. I know that Mike Ware has evolved some "safer" systems so perhaps I shall read his articles to see what chemicals he uses.

 

[wm blunt]

The ferric oxalate lasts a long time in powder form. After it's mixed it starts to degrade, if that's the right word to use, but even then it lasts a good while if kept in a cool dark place. I purchase the dry powder and mix a small amount a day or two before I plan on printing. Never had a problem with quality of ferric oxalate purchased from Bostick&Sullivan.
William Blunt

 

[Jeremy]

I think it's $8 for 25mL of Ferric Oxalate from Bostick & Sullivan in a dry powder. This dry powder comes in a amber glass bottle; just add water and a dropper and you're ready to go! I'm lazy so I'll probably just order my Ferric in 25 or 50mL amounts (depending on how much time I have to print in ~2 months) so that I don't have to measure anything out.

 

[philsweeney]

Roy: in "Making Kallitypes" by Dick Stevens, he recommends making your own and I asked Sandy King about that and he recommended just mixing your own and using it within a couple of months. Now I mix up one half of the FO instead a full batch so it never gets too old.

 

[roy]

Now I mix up one half of the FO instead a full batch so it never gets too old.

I assume then, that you buy it in. Do you get it from B&S ?

 

[Jorge]

I buy mine from Artcraftchemicals. While it is possible to make your own, at some point you will have some pretty concentrated acid, either as a by product or an ingredient. Even as a chemist I dont want to have that stuff in my DR. If you absolutely have to make your own, look at Perez's site, he has a pretty good method. If you figure the cost of buying the raw materials, the time spent doing it and the possible hazards, buying it in powder form is way more efficient and safer.

 

[Ole]

Would it be safer/easier to produce the Ferri oxalate in solution? There is no real need to make a dry powder through a particularly nasty process, when the end result is to be dissolved? All it would take is a way to either make Ferrioxalate solution of a known concentration, or a good way of measuring the concentration.

Just a thought...

 

[Jorge]

Would it be safer/easier to produce the Ferri oxalate in solution? There is no real need to make a dry powder through a particularly nasty process, when the end result is to be dissolved? All it would take is a way to either make Ferrioxalate solution of a known concentration, or a good way of measuring the concentration.

Just a thought...

From what I have read, the process of making the powder is an acid/base reaction or a salt/acid precipitation, either way even in solution some acid is present that has be washed off to be able to use the solution. I dont know if neutralizing would put the ferric oxalate back in solution, but either way I think there would be some ingredients left that would make printing difficult. I dont know, but for me, buying it is far easier than dealing with all the hassle.....

 

[roy]

buying it is far easier than dealing with all the hassle

That is what I shall do. Thank you all for your input.

 

[philsweeney]

I have purchased mine from artcraft.

 

[philsweeney]

Would it be safer/easier to produce the Ferri oxalate in solution? There is no real need to make a dry powder through a particularly nasty process, when the end result is to be dissolved? All it would take is a way to either make Ferrioxalate solution of a known concentration, or a good way of measuring the concentration.

Just a thought...

In Dick Steven's book all three methods for making FO are for making it in liguid form.

 

[Ole]

In Dick Steven's book all three methods for making FO are for making it in liguid form.

Which book is that? It's one I don't have, at least. FO is unobtainable in Norway, and takes a very long time to have shipped from anywhere - so long that it would be too old by the time I got it.

And lack of that one ingredient is what has stopped me from attempting Pd/Pt printing - I have everything else.

I do not particularly care for fumigating my entire garden (and the neighbor's garden as well) with fumes from nitric acid, which is a byproduct of the only process I've seen described.

 

[sanking]

Which book is that? It's one I don't have, at least. FO is unobtainable in Norway, and takes a very long time to have shipped from anywhere - so long that it would be too old by the time I got it.

The book mentioned is Dick Stevens, Making Kallitypes: A Definitive Guide, Focal Press, 1993. I think it is out of print at this time but you can find copies on amazon.com. This book has a lot of interesting experimental results and anyone really seriously interested in kallitypes would probably find it useful for that reason. Not so good as a working manual, howver.

Ferric oxalate in powder form, which is available from several sources in the US, incluiding Artcraft, Bostick and Sullivan and Formulary, is very long lasting and not terribly expensive. When the powder is mixed with water, however, it slowly degrades over a period of several months.

Sandy

 

[roy]

FO is unobtainable in Norway, and takes a very long time to have shipped from anywhere - so long that it would be too old by the time I got it.


Unless I have misunderstood the pricing, FO from B&S is sold by the gm, while that from Artcraft is sold by the ml in powder form for water to be added to produce a given quantity of liquid. On this basis Ole, if I am correct, the time factor should not prevent you from importing it and producing some nice prints for us all to see !

 

[Ole]

Well - I just ordered the book from amazon.co.uk.

I'll need to buy more chemicals soon, I'm running out of Pot. Ferri and silver nitrate from all this playing about with alt. processes! The available chemicals will be bought locally, but I'll think hard about FO from the USA. Need to get some gold chloride as well, come to think of it. I've started toning my van Dykes in it.

 

[Jeremy]

Ole,
B&S ships their FO in 25mL dry packs. They just say 25mL because that's how much water you have to add. The powder form is supposed to be incredibly stable and I don't see the problem in having it shipped to Norway.