Ferrania Italy Kickstarter campaign

Xmas · Oct 5, 2014

MattKing said:
The problem with this is that it generally worked the other way.

The military (or government, or some large industries) were willing to pay top dollar for huge quantities of very specialized, hard(er) to manufacture film. As those huge orders paid for making the stuff, it was economical to make just a bit more and sell it to the public.

More normally the military paid for the R&D,... etc.,... prototype coats until they got the performance they wanted... then

One can guess they are now paying for sensor developments too...

film_man · Oct 6, 2014

trythis said:
In the interview with Film photography podcast, Dave Bias said they have all the old emulsion formulas and many from films never produced. That sounds awesome if they figure a way to make small batches of new (old formulas) without losing money.

That's beyond awesome! Hopefully they can get the formulas from Kodak/Fuji to do other things, like E200...I loved that film.

msiegel · Oct 6, 2014

I have backed it and I hope they will be successful. I'm even thinking about upgrading by 15$ to get that postcard from Italy as well. If nothing else it's a nice add on to my collection.

Being able to produce film in quite small batches is an interesting option, I think, which can give us back some types of film we are so badly looking for. Even more interesting would be to see with which other formats they will come up with. I read somewhere on their website that they have already found a fully working 127 film packing machine.

And there will be movie film as well. So those old Super 8 and 16mm cameras could get some exercise again.
Anyway, it's about 80% funded right now with a little over three weeks to go.

So I keep by fingers crossed and my purse a little bit wider opened.

trythis · Oct 6, 2014

film_man said:
That's beyond awesome! Hopefully they can get the formulas from Kodak/Fuji to do other things, like E200...I loved that film.

The formulas they have are the ones that 3M, the former owner of Ferrania, created. I would guess it's extremely unlikely that they will get any Kodak Alaris formulas.

trythis · Oct 6, 2014

msiegel said:
I read somewhere on their website that they have already found a fully working 127 film packing machine.

.

The only thing about packaging less common formats is that it will take away from production time of a common format. So it may be financially dubious to produce 127, 126, 130, 116, etc.

One of the founders is focused on the motion picture film. I wonder how they feel about the Kickstarter funders focusing so much on still photography.

ChristopherCoy · Oct 6, 2014

$201k !!!

ww12345 · Oct 6, 2014

True. However, I think that if they do smaller production runs of all those other formats, it could be healthy for film in general. I know I'm excited to get some cool reversal film in my Super8 and 16mm cameras.

msiegel · Oct 6, 2014

Odd film formats

trythis said:
The only thing about packaging less common formats is that it will take away from production time of a common format. So it may be financially dubious to produce 127, 126, 130, 116, etc.

One of the founders is focused on the motion picture film. I wonder how they feel about the Kickstarter funders focusing so much on still photography.

I think they have been re-adjusting the rewards to have more still film available to backers.

As for the formats: Of course it depends what is worth the effort, but with the capability of doing smaller batches as well a single run now and then might also be earning money. I think Ferrania (before they closed down) were the last ones to produce 126 film - and with zillions of Instamatics around - who knows. Lomography managed to re-introduce 110 film, maybe they will come up with an Diana Instamatic as well ;-) no rewinding and stuff, just drop it in.

cmacd123 · Oct 6, 2014

film_man said:
That's beyond awesome! Hopefully they can get the formulas from Kodak/Fuji to do other things, like E200...I loved that film.

It would be probably easier for them to just come up with speciality films from scratch than to try to exactly match the look of a former Kodak or Fuji product, particularly when they don't have certified fresh stock to compare with.

The Scotch Chrome 100 is a shakedown of their systems, and the next projected project is given as attempting to recreate the 400 and 800-3200Push versions of Imation's E6 films. I believe their critical market is to keep Film Schools still using film to tech young media producers. This term, even if they want to, professors can't assign a project to produce a 16mm short film using no more than 400 ft of Ektachrome, unless the school stocked up while they could. The colour short was a traditional assignment after a similar one in B&W. And that is in Jeopardy as the available formats of TRI-X reversal seem to becoming more restricted. The students could be assigned to use Negative, but that is easier to use, and so does not provide as intense a learning experience.

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 6, 2014

If true, then I find it mildly interesting that by casual glance the bulk of the KS pledges thus far appear to be from still formats. As of this post they are now less than $45,000 away from their goal with 21+ days remaining, coming mostly from still users?

Interesting...

Ken

cmacd123 · Oct 6, 2014

Some stats can be gathered, The limited quanities available in total are 17,414 rolls of 35mm film. 7414 rolls of 120 film 2000 rols of Super 8 and 800 rolls of 16mm/100ft.

They have had a takeup of 4807 rolls of 35 or 27% of the available stock. 4084 or the 120, or 55% only 362 rolls of Super 8, or 18.1% of those available, and 229 rolls of 16mm or about 28.5% of those on offer.

I find this a bit disappointing in a way as 35mm and 120 do already have comparable products available. OTOH, I know I did not select the 16mm size as I also wanted to play with the 35mm slide film first, and the only pack with both sizes only had one of each.

If My math skills are anywhere close, and assuming that both 120 and 35mm36 are 80 quare inches, and 144 square inches is one square foot, they are planning to make almost 14,000 sq feet of still film.

I guess that they are actually planning on raising quite a bit more money than the quarter Million listed, considering the totals of all the limited items with a film order included is $617,490.00

film_man · Oct 7, 2014

cmacd123 said:
It would be probably easier for them to just come up with speciality films from scratch than to try to exactly match the look of a former Kodak or Fuji product, particularly when they don't have certified fresh stock to compare with.

Oh I'm not saying they should try to match it, I was thinking that at some point far down the line when they are hopefully very profitable and so on they can go to Kodak and say here's a suitcase of money can we have this and that formula please. Anyway, we can only hope

cmacd123 · Oct 7, 2014

film_man said:
Oh I'm not saying they should try to match it, I was thinking that at some point far down the line when they are hopefully very profitable and so on they can go to Kodak and say here's a suitcase of money can we have this and that formula please. Anyway, we can only hope

Of course at that point they wouldalready have an updated chrome 100, and Chrome 400, and the background on the differnce between the 100, 200 and 400 versions of the C-41 formulas. WIth that information is hand, why would they want to pay anything to a competitor, when they could design something in house.

With the Movie film background, they would be more likly to want to work on a 50 or a 25. Movie cameras normaly want to use a 1/50th shutter speed, (give or take) so for daylight use a 50ISO film would be very handy (or 64T). To be able to use the hundreds of Super 8 cameras out there that don't have agile light meters, a 40T would be a high value target. My super 8 camera is a resonaly high end SANKYO, and I don't think it can be made to do auto exposure with ISO 100 film.

analoguey · Oct 8, 2014

Got a letter that said they are enthused by the success and if they reach goals earlier they've surprises in store...
(that looks quite well planned, or quick reactions, to me)

Sent from Tap-a-talk

film_man · Oct 8, 2014

cmacd123 said:
Of course at that point they wouldalready have an updated chrome 100, and Chrome 400, and the background on the differnce between the 100, 200 and 400 versions of the C-41 formulas. WIth that information is hand, why would they want to pay anything to a competitor, when they could design something in house.

With the Movie film background, they would be more likly to want to work on a 50 or a 25. Movie cameras normaly want to use a 1/50th shutter speed, (give or take) so for daylight use a 50ISO film would be very handy (or 64T). To be able to use the hundreds of Super 8 cameras out there that don't have agile light meters, a 40T would be a high value target. My super 8 camera is a resonaly high end SANKYO, and I don't think it can be made to do auto exposure with ISO 100 film.

Well you seem to know how it will all plan out so that's good.

Richard S. (rich815) · Oct 8, 2014

This is all coming together seemingly too easily. I think their goals are way too optimistic. I really hope I'm wrong.

markaudacity · Oct 8, 2014

Best news all year. Just pledged my $35 and shared it on FB and Twitter.

markaudacity · Oct 8, 2014

Looks like they just added some cine film pledge options, y'all.

ChristopherCoy · Oct 9, 2014

Less than $20K to go and 20 days left before funding!

cmacd123 · Oct 9, 2014

film_man said:
Well you seem to know how it will all plan out so that's good.

I am just 100% spectating, based on my interpretaion of what they have said and where the gaps are showing in what is available. If I was calling the shots, I would be hoping for a 40T reversal film to keep as many Super 8 Cameras alive as posible....

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
I think their goals are way too optimistic. I really hope I'm wrong.

I am in the same boat, while I can see that they CAN meet the market with a much smaller plant, I wonder how for example they can Downsize the 126 Production cell they show in their last slideshow, to take up much less space (it does look like the machine does have two winding units where one would do, but the rest is hard to cut down.

Spin that unit up and you could probably take up all the pent up demand for 126 film for 6 months with an hour of operation. That and the fellow form ADOX.DE was saying that his firm had already bought parts of the 110 Packing machine, so do they have all the bits that they need.

I am also concerned if they really think they need a 100% self contained operation as that is of course more capital intense.

markaudacity · Oct 9, 2014

Lotta folks looking the gift horse in the mouth. Yeah, there are gaps in their lineup, but they aren't the only film company.

And you've got to face facts: color Super 8 is the smallest part of the smallest part of an already tiny market. The fact that they're making S8 carts at ALL is kind of amazing.

film_man · Oct 10, 2014

cmacd123 said:
If I was calling the shots, I would be hoping for a 40T reversal film to keep as many Super 8 Cameras alive as posible....

I'm sure the global market for super 8 is worth at least $50/year so that sounds like a great business plan...

Ricardo Miranda · Oct 10, 2014

There are more people using Super 8 than you might think.
You might not see them in the streets holding cameras.
There's a reason as why even Kodak introduced a new film, 50D, recently.
If you want to know more just go to anyone who sell S8 cameras and ask.
I was at a market stall a few weeks ago and there were several young people asking about those cameras and where to get film for them.

analoguey · Oct 10, 2014

Thats interesting. More student filmmakers?

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Ricardo Miranda · Oct 10, 2014

yes, I suppose so. And then they might not be!

Ferrania Italy Kickstarter campaign

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