Fastest film ever.

snaggs · Apr 16, 2005

If you've been reading the Rangefinder and Medium format forums, youll know that Im after the ultimate solution for night time candits.

So what is the fastest film? Which film can be pushed to the highest speeds with results acceptable for 8x10?

Daniel.

gareth harper · Apr 16, 2005

Isn't the obvious choice Ilford Delta 3200asa.
I get good results at 3200asa printed at 10x8 inch. I've gone to 6400asa and still got reasonable 10x8 inch prints but it is getting pretty grainy.
Try it with Ilford DD-X.

How fast do you want to go?

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 16, 2005

I have used Delta 3200 film a couple of times for indoor photography without flash in dim situations. It provides quite good results up to 5x7, I have never tried to enlarge larger than that.
I shot the film at EI 3200, and had it lab developed in Xtol chemistry, 35mm roll.
Delta 3200 can be pushed as far as EI 25,000, but Ilford recommends making test exposures before using it for anything of value.
Kodak Tmax 3200 is also pushable all the way to EI 25,000, and I suspect a high speed developer such as Diafine could be used (or is it Acufine, I can never remember) to extract the most out of these speed monsters.

On a number of occasions I've also used HP5 pushed to EI 1600, and to me that looks much better than the Delta 3200. I still don't enlarge it larger than 5x7 though.

Also, I don't know what kind of lens you use, but you may be well served by trying to find a lens with larger apertures, so you can use a film of lower speed and subsequently finer grain.

- Thom

Fotohuis · Apr 16, 2005

In fact it doesn't matter which fast film you are using: Tmax 3200, Delta 3200, Neopan 1600 or even the R3 (Rollei) will give you when you choose the right developer, together with a M R.F. and a 1,0 or 1,4 lens all posibilities on minimum light conditions. A Leica R.F. like M7 can be used by hand on 1/8 - 1/15 S.

Dean Williams · Apr 16, 2005

Fotohuis said:
A Leica R.F. like M7 can be used by hand on 1/8 - 1/15 S.

Wow, I didn't know Leicas were so powerful! Do they have some kind of freezing ray that comes out of them to stop people from moving while this 1/8 sec exposure is going on?

OK, to the question, I think Delta 3200 is the better of the 3 faster films. I'll see if an attachment goes in of a Delta shot. It's a street scene, and you can check out the sky for grain patterns. The print has waterspots on it, but you can get some idea of the grain. The neg for the Delta shot was devved in D76.

Also see my gallery for the photo "Church Girl" which was done on Neopan 1600 devved in Rodinal. D76 would be a better choice for finer grain.

Phillip P. Dimor · Apr 16, 2005

There are a few methods of increasing film speed, several of which are mentioned in the 'Film Developers Cookbook'. One involves 'gassing' the film with hydrogen peroxide. Perhaps looking into hypering film as is commonly done with astrophotographers..

I've had great results with pushing 120 Tri-X in Acufine and Microphen.. Possibly not what you wanted to hear but it could be worthwhile to look into.

snaggs · Apr 16, 2005

Fotohuis said:
A Leica R.F. like M7 can be used by hand on 1/8 - 1/15 S.

Tried taking photos of children at 1/8 or 1/15 of a second? Its fine if people are posing, Im really wanting to get up to 1/50. But yes, I am looking at getting a Bessa 2R w/35mm 1.2 just for night shots.

Heres the camera thread here

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I dont remember whether this photo was TMAX 3200 or Delta 3200, either way, its just a bit grainy for 8x10 I think. I havnt tried a chemical print yet.

snaggs · Apr 16, 2005

Now that is a great idea. I forgot about hypering!!

Daniel.

Donald Qualls · Apr 16, 2005

Hypering won't really help you that much. It mostly reduces reciprocity failure, rather than increasing true speed within the reciprocity window. In addition, the film that hypered best, Tech Pan, is out of production.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 17, 2005

Delta 3200 / Rodinal sample

I just remembered I had used some Delta 3200 last year, shot at 3200 and developed in Rodinal of all things. Shot indoors in a very old bowling alley in South Minneapolis, Minnesota.

These are scans of the 35mm negs directly done on a flatbed scanner, so they look like crap, but they will show how grainy this combination is. Still, the results on 5x7 enlargments are not bad at all.

- Thom

Fotohuis · Apr 17, 2005

Do they have some kind of freezing ray that comes out of them to stop people from moving while this 1/8 sec exposure is going on?

Yes, indeed, it' s called the Leica I.S. (Image Stabilizer) :confused:

R.F. : No mirror and a M7 shutter is so quiet that in practical use it's possible.

A Bessa 2R w/35mm 1.2 can be a good alternative but in (long term) quality you are talking about a different camera. (And of course a different price).

About the films: If you have to work on 35 mm film, the differences are a matter of a personal opinion. Both Tmax 3200 and Delta 3200 can give you the desired results.

Robert

atenlaugh · Apr 17, 2005

Here's Delta 3200, shot at 12,500 and developed in D76.

gandolfi · Apr 17, 2005

fast..

huggyviking said:
I just remembered I had used some Delta 3200 last year, shot at 3200 and developed in Rodinal of all things.

Ilford Delta is now my favorite (used to be the T-max 3200)
I tried it in my Diana camera (never tried it below 12500 iso) developed in Rodinal 1:25 in about 15 min at 26 degrees C...
I LOVE the result - nice clear grain.
see attch.

gandolfi · Apr 17, 2005

Ilford Delta is now my favorite (used to be the T-max 3200)

just to compare: t-max 3200 at 12500iso on a bright summer day..

jd callow · Apr 17, 2005

gandolfi,
You have some of the nicest stuff going -- bar none.

FWIW In the images you posted I prefer the heavier grain and contrast of the Tmax. The former might be more of a nod to my tastes.

In any event, Your images would look good on silly putty.

gandolfi · Apr 18, 2005

well - yes, maybe me too....

I forgot to say that the first was taken with my Diana camera so the grains might seem smaller as the enlargement wasn't so big as the latter (topcon Super DM)

John McCallum · Apr 18, 2005

Gotta agree with MrCallow. It's easy to make a high grain print look bad, but you seem have a method well established. The bird, particularly, is stunning.

phfitz · Apr 18, 2005

Hi there,

Photographer's Formulary has an additive for D-76 called Crone-C for pushing film to it's max. speed. I have no idea how fast you could get the 3200's. If you look up a thread here about lantensification they posted a recipe for a pre-bath to double the speed with normal development.

Have fun with it.

Donald Qualls · Apr 19, 2005

I've heard numerous reports of pushing T-Max 3200 to EI 25000 -- picture hand holding under a full moon. Of course, that's with an f/1.4 lens, because the stuff only comes in 35 mm. If you shoot mostly medium format (as I do) Delta 3200 is the only choice. Doesn't look bad at 12500, though; I might have to get a few rolls to put my Reflex II to a real test when I get it fixed...

Donald Qualls · Apr 19, 2005

Saaaaay...

I wonder what it would take to convince Ilford to coat and cut Delta 3200 in sheet formats? Picture hand holding a Speed or plate camera with available light in a bar or arena...

jrschulz · Apr 19, 2005

Used to shoot bands quite a bit. Started with tmax P3200 rated @ 3200, but think I've gotten better negatives using the classic combination of tri-x and Rodinal at either 1600 or 3200 (1600 seems to work so long as you don't care whether you see the drummer or not - but so long as you accept the grain, pushing it 3x gets the shot). Almost exclusively Medium Format now, and the tri-x/rodinal combo works just fine.

js

snaggs · Apr 28, 2005

A guy on the rangefinder forum who has done shots all the way up too EI 105,200 (I kid you not!), recommends Tri-X and hates T-MAX 3200.

I've also done some more reading on hypering, and apparently it can be used to increase the ISO, just not with Hydrogen which the Astrophotographers use, as that also fogs the film slightly whilst improving reciprocity (I know I spelt that wrong, its late).

I think pure Nitrogen might be the go, in another forum someone said Mercury-Vapour.

Daniel.

Roger Krueger · Apr 28, 2005

Donald Qualls said:
Saaaaay...

I wonder what it would take to convince Ilford to coat and cut Delta 3200 in sheet formats? Picture hand holding a Speed or plate camera with available light in a bar or arena...

I actually asked them about 3 years ago, and they said it would take at least 1/2 million in new machinery. Seemed sincere, not just a blow-off-the-nutcase.

glbeas · Apr 28, 2005

Not so long ago I heard of a new discovery of an additive to the emulsion that was supposed to drastically increase the ISO by allowing the film to not lose the charges accumilated during exposure. I can't remember the chemical, a common sounding thing, formate maybe? Anyhow I haven't heard any more about this, dropped due to lack of interest or a technical bust?

Donald Qualls · Apr 29, 2005

Formate doping is in use in the new Vision films from Kodak, as I understand it, but hasn't yet found its way into any B&W material that I know of. I'm seriously doubtful if it ever will, with Kodak no longer spending money on film R&D (the formate doped, aka double electron sensitized color materials were essentially market ready when Kodak made that, IMO, short-sighted decision) and no other company (with the possible exception of Fujifilm) in a position to drop a lot of money developing a new B&W film at this time.

Vision films are color negative motion picture stocks, which I believe use the alternate (not C-41) color negative process that once gave Seattle Filmworks such a bad name with one-hour processors; as such, they are of very limited utility for still photographers.

Fastest film ever.

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Fastest film ever.

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