Fake out Epson scanner to scan without negative carrier?

[billorg]

Does anyone know how to fake out an Epson Perfection scanner (mine is a V550) so that you can lay a negative down with non reflective glass over it and scan without a error demanding that you use the negative carrier?

 

[Kino]

Look on the back of your negative carrier. There should be a patch of white material (a calibration patch) that the scanner tries to reference.

You could mock up a template with black construction paper with a bit of white tape in the same position, but depending on how the tape reads, it may give you wonky results.

 

[250swb]

If Epson Scan says you can't do it, generally speaking you can't do it for practical reasons. If it's anything like the V700 scanning from the flatbed brings into play a different (lower resolution) lens, and you can scan 8x10 negatives from the bed. For 4x5 you'd use the negative holder with the higher resolution lens. So scanning from the bed would involve a lower resolution lens even if it's possible with the V550, and this obviously relates to whatever it is you want to scan (which we don't know) and whether it's worth even trying. If it is possible fooling the scanner by mimicking the holder would make it think it wants the higher resolution lens (if the V550 has one), so you'd just get an out of focus image anyway. Pure conjecture I know, I've never used a V550, but it won't do things better than a V700, and these failure points would apply to the higher spec of the V700.

 

[MattKing]

I don't know whether this applies to an Epson 550.
But many scanners rely on an opening or cutout in a negative holder to communicate information to the scanner and provide a calibration area. You may need to replicate that.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

With the older Epson flatbeds, all you have to do is keep the top inch of the scanner glass clear. That's what I do with the 4990 and have no problems. At least with the older Epsons, the scanner software reads the occlusions in that space (from the holders) to determine the scan dimensions. If it sees none, it scans the entire glass.

 

[George Collier]

Can you marquee the area you want to scan with the software?

 

[koraks]

Can you marquee the area you want to scan with the software?

With the 4990, yes. Select the "Film Area Guide" setting in the Epson scan dialog. Marquee selection is then possible; even multiple marquee if the host application supports it.

 

[Don_ih]

all you have to do is keep the top inch of the scanner glass clear

That's what you do with the V600, also.

 

[grat]

Any reason not to use a negative holder? They're available for pretty cheap.

 

[David Reynolds]

I have a 4990 and can scan either with a holder or directly on the glass. I have found that using a holder results in a better scan.

 

[Don_ih]

I have found that using a holder results in a better scan.

At least anecdotally, the scanners are "focused" at the elevation above the glass the holders gold them. So I don't think you are alone in your assessment.

 

[beemermark]

At least anecdotally, the scanners are "focused" at the elevation above the glass the holders gold them. So I don't think you are alone in your assessment.

The Epson software has a setting to scan the negative laying flat on the screen. So the scanner either focuses on the height of the holder or directly on the glass.

 

[David Reynolds]

The Epson software has a setting to scan the negative laying flat on the screen. So the scanner either focuses on the height of the holder or directly on the glass.

At least anecdotally, the scanners are "focused" at the elevation above the glass the holders gold them. So I don't think you are alone in your assessment.

That is correct in both cases. The software I am using has a setting that defines the scan as direct on the glass or using a holder.

 

[koraks]

So the scanner either focuses on the height of the holder or directly on the glass.

To the best of my knowledge all Epson flatbed scanners are fixed-focus devices with the optimal plane of focus being slightly above the glass platen.

The film holder vs. film area guide setting seems to mostly influence the software's ability for automatic frame-detection.

 

[Don_ih]

To the best of my knowledge all Epson flatbed scanners are fixed-focus devices with the optimal plane of focus being slightly above the glass platen.

How does that work for scanning prints, then?

 

[brbo]

How does that work for scanning prints, then?

Exactly the same as it does for scanning the film placed directly on glass. Less than optimal.

But, do you often scan prints at 2.000dpi and/or do you care if the effective resolution is then only 1.800dpi?

 

[koraks]

@brbo @Don Heisz that's it.
Also note that prints often have fairly poor surface flatness in addition to myriad other causes of overall poorer resolution than film-based images. It's therefore a logical compromise to optimize for film scanning at the cost of some resolution for scanning reflective documents.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

To the best of my knowledge all Epson flatbed scanners are fixed-focus devices with the optimal plane of focus being slightly above the glass platen.

The film holder vs. film area guide setting seems to mostly influence the software's ability for automatic frame-detection.

Back in the day, this was debated endlessly. My takeaways: (1) Epson built the scanners with enough depth of field to make this question moot. (2) Production sample variations had a greater effect than whether the film was on the glass, or a millimeter above it. (3) Flatbed scanners are inherently soft in their rendering of film, compared to the results one obtains from drum scanners.

You might or might not be able to see a difference if you scan a USAF resolution target at 2400 dpi on the Epson 4990 glass, and a mm off the glass. It will have no *practical* effect on the sharpness of the scan.

I don't use the holders because (1) it's easier to work without them and (2) I can scan the full frame, without occlusion from the holder. I have never felt that my results suffered by scanning negatives on the glass. FMMV.

 

[brbo]

Glass bed vs optimal height on my 4990:

 

[Don_ih]

@brbo @koraks - then scanning a print slightly elevated should produce a sharper scan. It's easy enough to cut a print wide enough to sit in the 35mm negative holder - perhaps I'll try that, later.

 

[David Reynolds]

Epson scanner 4990 Photo ,
When using Epson Scan software (in my case 2.68A - goes way back to 2003) Apple version. You have the software set to Professional mode (top right corner of scan window) Next you go down to Document Type and click on it. Three choices appear Reflective, Film (with holder) Film (with film area guide). If you click on Film (with film area guide) you are able to scan transparencies or film directly on the glass. They recommend using a film area guide which is an open flat window (supplied with the film holders by Epson) that lays around the perimeter of the glass platen. This prevents one from laying the film too close to the perimeter of the platen as the scan falls off around the edge and is not accurate. If one clicks on - film with holder- the scanner focuses on the film just above the glass parallel with the film. If one clicks on the -film area guide - the scanner focuses on the glass. So the scanner is two dimensional in focus.

 

[David Reynolds]

Also when set for reflective the scanner focuses on the glass.

 

[David Reynolds]

When you chose film (film with area guide) the film lays directly on the glass inside the the film area guide. The film area guide is an open window.
You don't need the film area guide if you keep the film well inside the edges of the platen . It is supplied as a precaution.

 

[koraks]

@Rolleiflexible my observations with my (single) copy of a 4990 are similar to the example sheon by @brbo. The difference is noticeable - but I never found it very relevant for 4x5 and 8x10 film. For smaller formats, it's a more nuanced story, but I often just smack the film onto the glass for a quick scan and call it good

@Don Heisz yes indeed, you could rig something up for ultra sharp scans of reflective media. Never tried it; I'd be interested in hearing your experiences in case you give it a go.

Also when set for reflective the scanner focuses on the glass.

No, I don't think so. See message exchange above and @brbo's illustration. These scanners are fixed focus.

 

[David Reynolds]

@Rolleiflexible my observations with my (single) copy of a 4990 are similar to the example sheon by @brbo. The difference is noticeable - but I never found it very relevant for 4x5 and 8x10 film. For smaller formats, it's a more nuanced story, but I often just smack the film onto the glass for a quick scan and call it good

@Don Heisz yes indeed, you could rig something up for ultra sharp scans of reflective media. Never tried it; I'd be interested in hearing your experiences in case you give it a go.



No, I don't think so. See message exchange above and @brbo's illustration. These scanners are fixed focus.

@Rolleiflexible my observations with my (single) copy of a 4990 are similar to the example sheon by @brbo. The difference is noticeable - but I never found it very relevant for 4x5 and 8x10 film. For smaller formats, it's a more nuanced story, but I often just smack the film onto the glass for a quick scan and call it good

@Don Heisz yes indeed, you could rig something up for ultra sharp scans of reflective media. Never tried it; I'd be interested in hearing your experiences in case you give it a go.



No, I don't think so. See message exchange above and @brbo's illustration. These scanners are fixed focus.

Sorry to report -I have been using an Epson 4990 photo for over 20 years and it focuses on two different planes . Maybe the 4990 scanner doesn't but the 4990Photo does. If you want proof I will put together both glass scan and holder scan and you won't be able to tell the difference