Fair deal on M2 and M3 ?

Andrey · Apr 17, 2013

I have a chance to get an m2 or m3 at 650 bucks each.

M3 serial is in 1 000 000 to 1 100 000 in the middle and is very clean. Some wear marks but not brassing.

M2 serial in in middle 900k. M2 has a dent on the top plate on the right and the rewind lever's teeth are imprinted on the body. It looks like it was bumped, but the brass is not showing. Otherwise it's very clean.

They're not mint by any means and the L seals are broken, but they've extremely clean for 50 year old cameras, almost to the point the me using them would add marks quickly.

Is this a good deal? Fair price? Rip off?

Anything I should look out for? Thanks. This would be my first and I have no idea on collection side.

I have a jupiter 12. Would it have mounting problems?

The viewfinders are not as bright as bessas, but very bright as well.

cliveh · Apr 17, 2013

Good price. Buy both.

summicron1 · Apr 17, 2013

assuming all mechanicals are ok, those are excellent prices. The Jupiter 12 will mount with an adaptor, but why put russian glass on german mechanics? Those two countries never have gotten along well ...

Nick Merritt · Apr 17, 2013

Yes, I'd say very good prices, especially for a late M3 in clean shape. I take it everything works properly -- shutter speeds; framelines; rangefinder aligned?

I'm sure you know this, but you will need an M adaptor for the J12, specifically one that brings up 35mm framelines since that's a 35mm lens. And only the M2 has 35mm framelines -- you would need an external viewfinder for accurate framing with the M3.

tony lockerbie · Apr 17, 2013

What Cliveh says...if you can afford both, get them at that price. The camera you get depends on the use, if you like the 50, then the M3 is the go. I have the M2 because I use a 35mm lens quite a lot and never use a 135 on a rangefinder.
Usual problems to look for are mis-aligned rangefinder or cloudy viewfinders, and check that the low speeds are ok. Otherwise these cameras are pretty bomb proof. Your Jupiter will be fine, and I presume it is a thread mount? In which case you will need a LTM to M adaptor. Cosina Voigtlander make an excellent range of lenses if you can't afford Leica lenses.

Andrey · Apr 17, 2013

summicron1 said:
but why put russian glass on german mechanics? Those two countries never have gotten along well ...

It's the only 35mm I have and I'm content with it. The only problem would be misfocusing, but I shoot it stopped down anyways so it might not matter that much.

I take it everything works properly -- shutter speeds; framelines; rangefinder aligned?

It's supposed to. The rangefinders are not as bright as bessa, but brighter than FED and XA I shoot with.

I don't know how to check for rangefinder. Framelines seems ok.

Your Jupiter will be fine, and I presume it is a thread mount? In which case you will need a LTM to M adaptor. Cosina Voigtlander make an excellent range of lenses if you can't afford Leica lenses.

I have a leica adapter already. It came as a package with my 21mm skopar.

I'll be eating rice and noodles for a while.

summicron1 · Apr 17, 2013

the ltm-m adaptor that came with your 21 should say whether it will also work on a 35mm -- for the M2, you need the proper adaptor to bring up the 35mm frame line. To check, put it on the lens -- any lens -- and put it on the camera -- look through viewfinder, if farthest outside frame line is what you see, it's the right one. You can tell which is the 35mm frame line by pulling the selector lever on the front of the camera towards the outside edges of the camera (left).

To check the rangefinder, put a lens on and focus at infinity -- at that distance (and pick something about half a mile away, not across the street) the images should coincide AND not be off vertically, although a tiny bit of vertical misallignment is acceptable and, with a bumped-around camera, sometimes unavoidable.

Andrey · Apr 17, 2013

summicron1 said:
the ltm-m adaptor that came with your 21 should say whether it will also work on a 35mm -- for the M2, you need the proper adaptor to bring up the 35mm frame line. To check, put it on the lens -- any lens -- and put it on the camera -- look through viewfinder, if farthest outside frame line is what you see, it's the right one. You can tell which is the 35mm frame line by pulling the selector lever on the front of the camera towards the outside edges of the camera (left).

To check the rangefinder, put a lens on and focus at infinity -- at that distance (and pick something about half a mile away, not across the street) the images should coincide AND not be off vertically, although a tiny bit of vertical misallignment is acceptable and, with a bumped-around camera, sometimes unavoidable.

Aparently it's a leica adapter. It says: M2 21-35 M3 135

So I assume it should bring up the 35mm framelines on M2

Richard S. (rich815) · Apr 17, 2013

I got my 1,000,000+ user M2 with a full CLA for $550. I think those prices are a tad high unless they were CLA'd recently and without the dents you describe. I'd be patient.

summicron1 · Apr 17, 2013

Andrey said:
Aparently it's a leica adapter. It says: M2 21-35 M3 135

So I assume it should bring up the 35mm framelines on M2

yes it should. ct

Andrey · Apr 17, 2013

rich815 said:
I got my 1,000,000+ user M2 with a full CLA for $550. I think those prices are a tad high unless they were CLA'd recently and without the dents you describe. I'd be patient.

Well... they're mine now. I hope there's no issues. I won't have time to shoot for a week or so.

M2 has dents. M3 is "clean user".

I haven't seen them come up too often locally - it's all online and it seems more risky. If I lose some money if/when I sell, it would still be cheaper than my d1g1tl adventures.

Patrick Robert James · Apr 18, 2013

Andrey, that is a pretty good price for them if they are unproven. In the long run, you have done well. If you use them then they are far more valuable! Eventually you will probably need to get them CLA'd. If you don't see any problems then don't worry about it right now. Plan on doing it though. They will last you the rest of your life if you take care of them.

Andrey · Apr 18, 2013

What do you mean by "unproven"?

Patrick Robert James said:
Andrey, that is a pretty good price for them if they are unproven. In the long run, you have done well. If you use them then they are far more valuable! Eventually you will probably need to get them CLA'd. If you don't see any problems then don't worry about it right now. Plan on doing it though. They will last you the rest of your life if you take care of them.

I hope I won't have to CLA yet. They've been taken apart and serviced at some time. If they work now and work for the next 2-3 years, I'm very happy. By then I decide which one I like more.

I've spent the last few hours trying to understand my new cameras, my relationship to them and the promises they bring.

The fact is, I wasn't planning to buy a leica. I was thinking about them for a while, but I simply needed a body for zeiss sonnar. I was counting on some a bessa or a zeiss ikon if it's a good deal.

Bessas go for 400 and the difference seemed negligible for the "leica experience"

Now I'm looking at them. The body seems like a polished lovechild between a fed and a bessa. I know, I know. It's the original. But bessa has a better (brighter? ) viewfinder.

And the slow realization that there's pressure to justify me owning Leica with good images. No other camera purchase has been as introspective so far.

Pioneer · Apr 18, 2013

Ehh, forget any pressure. Just go shoot and enjoy them. That is what they were made for. Shoot them a lot until you know what they and that Sonnar of yours can do.

Patrick Robert James · Apr 18, 2013

If you asked me whether I would take a free Bessa or a spend a few hundred for an M2, I would take the M2. The only finder better than a Leica is the ZI. Enjoy your cameras Andrey.

Kosta · Apr 18, 2013

nice buy. good luck i have used and loved both, but have stuck with my M2 for my main lens - a 35mm.

thegman · Apr 18, 2013

If they work, then they are both very good prices I think.

Andrey · Apr 18, 2013

Patrick Robert James said:
If you asked me whether I would take a free Bessa or a spend a few hundred for an M2, I would take the M2. The only finder better than a Leica is the ZI. Enjoy your cameras Andrey.

That's basically it. Bessas go for 350 on auction, 400 in person. The difference seemed to be worth it to get into Leica.

The major benefit is that the foam seals don't turn to mucky mess.

benjiboy · Apr 21, 2013

I know nothing about Leicas, but I do know what's considered a "fair deal" depends on if you are are buying or selling

Fair deal on M2 and M3 ?

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