Faint image in colour prints

[Photo Engineer]

I always wondered why cyan filters are on the color heads, but someone must find them useful at some point. Or were cyan filters just added for completeness. [note: I am not entirely being sirius here, so please do not use this as a way to hijack the thread.]

Any reversal type print could require CM, CY, or MY in any combination to correct for lighting changes and enlarger type. Cibachrome even had a published filtration difference between Ektachrome and Kodachrome.

PE

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you I figured that there was a good reason for the cyan filters.

 

[Mogsby]

The papar and chemicals came from ag photographic. I will be having a word with them.

 

[bvy]

I second (third, etc.) the use of a tempered prewet. Also, I would make one 8x10 test print, cut it into, say, ten one inch strips, and develop each one until you get something constant and repeatable. That way you're holding the paper, filtration and exposure constant while you figure out what's going on with your chemicals. Potentially saves you some time too.

I use cyan when I get magenta down to zero and still have a green cast in the print. Then I have to bring cyan and yellow up in tandem.

 

[Rudeofus]

I always wondered why cyan filters are on the color heads, but someone must find them useful at some point. Or were cyan filters just added for completeness. [note: I am not entirely being sirius here, so please do not use this as a way to hijack the thread.]

I had to use cyan filter to RA-4 print a Cinestill 800T negative shot in daylight close to the blue hour - see my gallery shot. It's rare, but it can happen.

 

[Mogsby]

It will help us to help you if you give more information such as enlarger(type dichroic head or gel fiters), how you establish exposure time, your fstop setting, print size, print filtration setting(Y and M), use of safelight., print processor

To help us eliminate potential causes tell us as much as possible about what you do from taking the paper out of its box to drying the print


Hi,
I have found the chemical problem, the plastic trays I was using must have been ruining the chemicals. I have poured the chemicals into glass jars and on second use, all is fine.
I warmed everything up to 35c or as close as I could get it. I pre-soaked the paper and Paterson orbiter. I set the filters to 60y 50m 0c as I read this is a good stating place. I set the aperture to 5.6 which is 2 steps back from full open. I did the test strip with 2 sec intervals and processed for 30 secs in dev,stop and blix.

Hopefully this info is of more use. Should I try stepping down onw with the aperture?.

 

[Mogsby]

Hi Everyone,
This test strip is done at fstop 8 with 2 sec intervals. I think I have the density better but the colour is ver Blueish. What do I ad or minus to get rid of the blue?.
Mick

 

[BMbikerider]

Temperature

I am using the Paterson orbital tank. I made up fresh solutions this morning. Thing is the tank says it needs only 55ml of chemical for each sage. When I got the chemicals up to 35c and used them, the developer is very fast acting and at 45 secs in the developer the paper comes out black. On second use of the same developer, it is slower and more manageable.

Between the 1st use and the 2nd are you maintaining the temperature. It will be surprising how quickly small quantities of developer cool down. RA4 developer will be quick acting, thats the nature of the beast. if the exposure is correct, an image will appear around 10-15 seconds and be fully complete at 45 seconds. The last 10 seconds will be very slow.

You do not have to worry too much about the stop bath and blix, they can be shortened if the temp is over 35 degrees or extended if it is below without to much problem. They are not critical.

 

[mnemosyne]

It will help us to help you if you give more information such as enlarger(type dichroic head or gel fiters), how you establish exposure time, your fstop setting, print size, print filtration setting(Y and M), use of safelight., print processor

To help us eliminate potential causes tell us as much as possible about what you do from taking the paper out of its box to drying the print


Hi,
I have found the chemical problem, the plastic trays I was using must have been ruining the chemicals. I have poured the chemicals into glass jars and on second use, all is fine.
I warmed everything up to 35c or as close as I could get it. I pre-soaked the paper and Paterson orbiter. I set the filters to 60y 50m 0c as I read this is a good stating place. I set the aperture to 5.6 which is 2 steps back from full open. I did the test strip with 2 sec intervals and processed for 30 secs in dev,stop and blix.

Hopefully this info is of more use. Should I try stepping down onw with the aperture?.

Please stick to the published times, which is 45 seconds at 35C. It appears to me that what you are doing right now is that you are still overexposing and trying to compensate for that by "pulling" the development. This is not good practice and will not produce satisfactory results. Instead shorten the exposure time (stop down) and give the paper the full 45 seconds at 35C (steady agitation). Keep in mind that RA4 Color paper is VERY fast! To give you an idea what to expect: I just checked my records and the last time I printed smaller prints (5x7 at the time), I had an exposure time of 8s at f16 with almost 2 stops neutral density dialed in (plus the normal filtration of 50M 75Y). So if we take the ND filter out of the equation this would translate to 2s at f16 --- for a 5x7 print! So you are printing on 4x5 paper with 2 sec at f5.6 my guess is that you are still overxposing by 2-3 stops at least (!).

 

[mnemosyne]

Hi Everyone,
This test strip is done at fstop 8 with 2 sec intervals. I think I have the density better but the colour is ver Blueish. What do I ad or minus to get rid of the blue?.
Mick

STOP! The 2 sec strips looks okayish, but you are still processing for 30 sec? Then you are still overexposing and pulling development (see my post above)! It makes no sense to play around with filtration before you have established the correct exposure time and especially when you are pulling development.
Try 2 sec at f8, f16 and another one with 2 sec at f22 (if you are enlarger lens allows) AND give full development (45 sec at 35C) and see the results. As soon as you have determined correct exposure we will look at the color balance.

 

[Mogsby]

Ok, Thanks for the latest input, I'll try with F8 at 2 secs and f16, that's as far as lens will go.
I get what you mean about pulling the developing. I'll leave it full 45 secs.
Cheers
Mick

 

[BMbikerider]

If you can get a hold of a set of Kodak colour printing filters they will help. These are not for use with the enlarger but a guide to what any filtration alteration is needed. It gives advice how you change, shall we say by adding or subtracting the other filters in proportion. There are also multiplication factors to add or subtract times when changing the filtration. As you are using FUJI paper as opposed to Kodak they will not be accurate but they are a good guide. I don't think they are available new, but as you are in UK get in touch with 'Second Hand Darkroom Supplies' and I know they have them used but generally in good condition for about £5-£10. Their 'phone number is 01993 878323. What to ask for is:- A Kodak Colour print viewing filter set.

It is also essential before assessing any filtration changes when looking at a print, that you must do so when the print is completely dry. When a print is wet there will be a blue cast, especially in the shadows which can give a false reading. My method is to wipe the test print to remove all surface water, then dry it with a hair dryer.

 

[pentaxuser]

I am surprised that plastic trays are contaminating the chemicals. Are they photographic trays and do you use the same trays for the same chemical each time, ensuring that after use each tray is cleaned?

Just to repeat what others have said but it needs repeating: Leave any change to filtration until you are sure that the developer temperature and print time in the developer are correct i.e. 35C and 45 secs and the print is then examined for colour cast when completely dry.

You mention your Tetenal kit supplier as being Ag Photographic. Is this Ag in Birmingham, England? If so I'd be surprised if there are any quality issues with the kit it sells

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

Add either 10 or 20 Y to your filter pack depending on exposure and process time. As stated you are under developing.

PE

 

[Mogsby]

The trays I was using are gravel trays from the garden, I think most likely that my daughter had used them for her B+W photography and not cleaned them properly. I should have washed them before use. I'll try giving them a clean with washing up liquid. I will invest in some proper trays when funds allow.

I managed to do a few prints at 35c. First print was at f16 for 2 secs with 45 secs developing, came out faint so I did exact same with f11 setting. I did a few more prints on the same settings. I need to make sure I wash the orbiter lid properly. I take it the splodges are from cross contamination.

 

[Mogsby]

 

[pentaxuser]

It is still difficult to say what you need to do to get to a really decent print. Showing small strips against a large brick wall doesn't help. Can you show just a thumbnail of each print instead or better still the test strips at each print exposure. It will be easier to see which one looks correctly exposed.

As things stand it looks still looks under-exposed assuming that dev time and temp are correct and I'd try PE suggestion on filtration as well. There is what looks to be a cyanish cast still here.

pentaxuser

 

[Matt5791]

Just to put my oar in - The chemistry is fresh supplied from Tetenal, and the paper from Fujifilm. We have a good stock turn on these products - so you can rule out the chemistry or the paper going off. There are loads of variables and factors in colour printing that can be affecting these prints - especially if you have weak temperature control.

If you need me to I can obtain dates from Tetenal and Fujifilm as there are batch numbers to help rule this out.

Absolutely best advise is keep an eye on ebay for a Durst printo or RCP processor - it will make a massive difference, so much easier! very handy machines.

 

[Mogsby]

Just to put my oar in - The chemistry is fresh supplied from Tetenal, and the paper from Fujifilm. We have a good stock turn on these products - so you can rule out the chemistry or the paper going off. There are loads of variables and factors in colour printing that can be affecting these prints - especially if you have weak temperature control.

If you need me to I can obtain dates from Tetenal and Fujifilm as there are batch numbers to help rule this out.

Absolutely best advise is keep an eye on ebay for a Durst printo or RCP processor - it will make a massive difference, so much easier! very handy machines.

Hi Matt,
The chemicals and paper are fine, I didn't think they would be stale as you were out of stock when I ordered and awaiting new stock. But next time I will go for the Kodak RA4 kit as its better value I think in the long run. But it would help if there were manufactured dates on the bottles. A bit like no dates on rubber tyres! I found the problem was contamination from the trays I was using.
I'll keep an eye out on ebay
Cheers
Mick