Faint image in colour prints

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

Hello,
I am new to colour printing and am having difficulty with the prints being very faint.
I am using Tetenal RA4 colour kit at 35c. Paper is Fuji crystal archive.
Images are exposed for 30 secs then in the developer for around 45 secs with a stop bath before the blix for same time as dev. Tetenal say not to pre-soak the paper,
Do I need to extend the exposure time? or am I using the wrong chemicals for the Fuji paper.
Any input would be much appreciated.

Mick

Sirius Glass · Jan 18, 2016

Welcome to APUG

I suggest that you expose longer for starters.

pentaxuser · Jan 18, 2016

It will help us to help you if you give more information such as enlarger(type dichroic head or gel fiters), how you establish exposure time, your fstop setting, print size, print filtration setting(Y and M), use of safelight., print processor

To help us eliminate potential causes tell us as much as possible about what you do from taking the paper out of its box to drying the print

I know this sounds like overkill but my experience is that otherwise we have to try and pose solutions before we know everything and it takes longer to get the a solution

Currently all I can say is that if your paper and chemicals are fresh then we can eliminate the kit and paper as a cause and the processing temperature is correct.

pentaxuser

BMbikerider · Jan 18, 2016

Faint colour prints

As with most printing, a test strip exposure is almost always required, however 30 seconds seems quite a long time to expose a colour negative. Personally I don't like Fuji paper but use Kodak cut from a buk roll which is about 1/2 a stop slower than Fuji. Even for a 12x16 print from a 35mm neg I would not expect to expose for more than 20 seconds with the lens stopped down to F8. The temp for the developer is right, as is the use of stop bath before the blix.

The accuracy of the developer is not THAT important, so long as you are consistent and always develop at that temp close to the recommended one. What are you using to hold the developer when developing, Dish, drum or deep-tank? If you are using a dish without it being heated as well, the drop in temp would cause the developer to become less active.

When you mixed the developer there would have been 3 or 4 bottles of concentrate chemicals, were any of them discoloured darker than a deep straw colour? Stale chemicals could be responsible.

What enlarger are you using and what filtration?

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

I just tried longer exposure and it hasn't really improved anything.

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

I'm using a Paterson colour enlarger with the sliding filters just below the lamp. I did do a test strip but due to the poor quality of the developed print, it didn't tell me much. I'm using a Paterson orbital developer tank thing, the manual one. Its not great. I'm having difficulty maintaining the correct temps across all the solutions. I have them stood in a gravel tray with an aquarium heater sat in the water. It has max temp of 35c, but is useless.

mnemosyne · Jan 18, 2016

Insufficient exposure is NOT your problem. 30 seconds for a 4x5 sized print is ridiculous. A standard exposure for 12x16 with a 100W halogen bulb is something like 8s at f8 or f11 with my enlarger. Well, unless your filtration is 200M+200Y+200C (I hope it isn't!).

My (not very educated) guess would be that your developer is on the brink of going dead. Test the developer for activity, it's easy: Take a strip of your RA4 paper, expose it full room light and process it. It should turn out solid black.

If you get the same faint results as before, the developer is shot and has to be replaced. This could have several reasons: concentrates gone bad, user error when preparing the solution, or cross contamination (!) from stop or blix.

When did you prepare the working solutions and how old are the concentrates?

sfaber17 · Jan 18, 2016

I agree with the above comments. In additions I would pre-wet. I had no trouble with Fuji and pre-wet. If you don't you will be subject to streaks. Also it may be needed to get your paper and drum up to the correct temp. If you have trouble maintaining 35C, then do it at 30C with the longer times. Maybe your filter pack is the problem.

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

Hi,
The first few prints I had the lens aperture fully open, I moved it back 2 stops. the print size is 5 x 4, cut up from 10x8 sheets. Just to save paper while I get the hang of it. I tried using 20Y 30M, then increasing both. The print were coming out green. The last prints I did this afternoon, I used all the cyan and all the yellow, crazy setting, but at least I have reds and blues showing up now. Its a starting place I suppose. I'm not using any safelight. All the paper and chemicals are freshly bought. I think I must be doing something wrong somewhere.

Photo Engineer · Jan 18, 2016

Cyan filtration should be zero.

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

I am using the Paterson orbital tank. I made up fresh solutions this morning. Thing is the tank says it needs only 55ml of chemical for each sage. When I got the chemicals up to 35c and used them, the developer is very fast acting and at 45 secs in the developer the paper comes out black. On second use of the same developer, it is slower and more manageable.

Photo Engineer · Jan 18, 2016

Something is wrong right there. There should be virtually no change between the first and second use.

PE

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

I will have another go tomorrow, taking on board all the advice given. I'll write down temp, f stop, filter settings etc. Will make it easier for you guys to spot what the problem is.
Thanks for all the replies/help etc.
Mick

MattKing · Jan 18, 2016

Try developing for a longer time to see if there is a change. If so, that will indicate that the problem may be with the developer.

Is there any chance that you have over-diluted the developer?

Does anyone here use the Tetenal RA4 materials at room temperature?

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

I use the colour coded cups to measure out the amount needed for the orbital tank, then I pour out the chemicals into their own trays ready to bottle for re use. like I say, first use the chemicals just about burn the paper. I double checked I am mixing to the correct ratio's, also checked to make sure I was not cross contaminating.

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

I will try pre wetting, I have streaks on a lot of the practice prints. I'll try 30c. Maybe the aquarium heater will help at that temp.

Rudeofus · Jan 18, 2016

Just to rule out the most simple cause for your problem: how old is your stash of RA4 paper?

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

The chemicals don't have any date on them, don't know if you can tell by colour if they are old/stale?.

pentaxuser · Jan 18, 2016

Mogsby said:
When I got the chemicals up to 35c and used them, the developer is very fast acting and at 45 secs in the developer the paper comes out black. On second use of the same developer, it is slower and more manageable.

Can you be more specific about this? Do you mean that a piece of print paper subject to room light comes our black or a piece of paper subject to only enlarger light with or without a negative projection on it comes out black. I am perplexed as to how a faint cyanish looking print in your first post has now come out black and why on the second use of the developer the print turns out completely differently. What does "slower and more manageable" mean in terms of colour?

When you develop a print what do you do with the developer i.e. do you pour it back into a bigger container then pour the 35ccs back into the drum for the next print.

As I said previously you need to tell us exactly what you do each time. Yes it will mean writing more and yes, some of what you tell us will not turn out to be germane to the problem but until we can narrow things down we need to know exactly what you are doing.

pentaxuser

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

Hi,
I bought the paper less than a week ago. Thing is, with no dates on anything, how long has the store had the products for? !!!.

Mogsby · Jan 18, 2016

Hi,
I will do that on my next try tomorrow. I'm probably not making much sense at the moment. I'll write down all my steps.
Mick

pentaxuser · Jan 18, 2016

So we now know that both paper and chemicals may be defective. It sounds as if the developer is highly effective( turns the paper black!) on its first use to an extent that calls into question whether you need anything like 30 secs exposure as has been stated but then become "manageable". If that means that on the second print it produces a picture that you can see at the same exposure then this strongly indicates that the developer almost dies second time around which it shouldn't do.

I know you have already bought both paper and chemicals of unknown age and provenance and I hope there is an explanation for your print quality that allows you to use what you've bought but when starting out on the new venture of colour printing it is a pity that you hadn't bought fresh paper and chemicals.

pentaxuser

BMbikerider · Jan 18, 2016

I think a Patterson colour enlarger uses Kodak units of filtration. Set the Cyan to zero - it's not used in colour prnting. Set the yellow and magenta to about 40Y 50M this should give you a base to start from. Set the lens at F5.6 or F8.

However my money is on the developer being oxidised or incorrectly mixed or stale. Is it possible that some of the stop bath or blix has accidentally contaminated the developer? Either way the developer will be of no further use.

Sirius Glass · Jan 18, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Cyan filtration should be zero.

I always wondered why cyan filters are on the color heads, but someone must find them useful at some point. Or were cyan filters just added for completeness. [note: I am not entirely being sirius here, so please do not use this as a way to hijack the thread.]

MattKing · Jan 18, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
I always wondered why cyan filters are on the color heads, but someone must find them useful at some point. Or were cyan filters just added for completeness. [note: I am not entirely being sirius here, so please do not use this as a way to hijack the thread.]

Cibachrome.

And possibly R prints.

Faint image in colour prints

Mogsby

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