Failing to load film into Rolleiflex. What's wrong with me?

[McDiesel]

I must be a defective human being. I've read the manual but I keep failing to load film into Rolleiflex 3.5F! Here's what happens:

• I have read loading instructions numerous times.
• I load the film.
• Close the lid.
• Advance the crank until it stops. The frame counter reads "1" as it should.
• I fire the 1st shot. It works fine.

But then this happens:

• The crank doesn't advance forward. It's locked.
• I can rewind it backwards, which cocks the shutter.
• The crank still doesn't advance forward, but at this point I can trigger the shutter causing double exposure, of course.
• This unlocks the crank and the rest of the roll is fine.
• Basically, the camera forces me to expose the 1st frame twice.

This doesn't happen always, about every 3rd film or so.

And here's the strangest thing: this happens to me not only with my 3.5F, but also with 2.8F and FW 4.0! So it's definitely not a hardware issue. At this point I'm out of ideas, short of making a video of myself loading a Rolleiflex and posting it on YouTube.

Harry Fleenor on the phone said that I somehow flip the double-exposure ring when loading. How would that happen? I don't touch that thing. Is there another way to trigger this behavior? Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Nitroplait]

Very strange indeed.
I didn't even know my Rolleiflex cameras were capable of double exposure until a very recent thread. So if you don't use it, it is hard for me to imagine you have engaged it accidentally on not only one, but 3 cameras.

I own 4 rolleiflex cameras, 3 with the "Automat" style loading (the film is loaded between the two rollers) and 1 with a conventional arrow alignment loading, and I don't recall that I ever had a loading problem.

Have you had the problem throughout your ownership of all the cameras?
Are there any common denominators for your cameras? Like same previous owner or serviced by the same tech?

 

[campy51]

I had the same problem on 2 that I have owned. My way around it was to use the double exposure function while blocking the taking lens and fire the shutter. No loss of frame.

 

[reddesert]

In your procedure you say "advance the crank until it stops" then "fire the 1st shot." I assume you left out "wind backwards to cock the shutter" in between, but that you're doing it. (It may be theoretically possible that one could cock the shutter before loading the film and omit that step, but I'm not sure.)

Anyway, this is a guess, but I guess that the wind lever is traveling backward far enough to cock the shutter but not quite far enough for the double exposure prevention to disengage when the shutter is fired.

 

[Dan Daniel]

If you have moved the double exposure dial, it will stay in position off set, rotating about 20 degrees counterclockwise from the rest position aligned with the wind lever and bottom knob rest hole.

Next time this happens, see if pressing the shutter release button a second time (before cocking it by winding back) all the way to the bottom releases the wind system. I wonder if the wind release and shutter release are out of sync.

 

[Nitroplait]

… I wonder if the wind rleease and shutter release are out of sync.

On 3 cameras?

 

[Dan Daniel]

On 3 cameras?

Yeah, I know, it's a stretch. Of course that points to the common factor for all cameras, the operator.

 

[macfred]

I think post #4 should be considered again. This has already happened to me with my 3.5F as described.

 

[Rayt]

This has happened to me though not with 3 different cameras. The problem was that I had failed to make sure the spools were seated properly causing the film and paper to travel slightly sideways resulting in a jam. Now after inserting a new roll of film I move it back and forth to make sure it’s seating properly and same goes for for the empty take up spool on top. Never had a problem since.

 

[McDiesel]

Thank you everyone. @reddesert I will pay closer attention to this backward motion. I haven't even considered it. As far as I knew, the shutter is cocked during the forward movement. Just replaying this with muscle memory, I indeed tend to gently wind backwards just enough for the crank to reach the rest stop.

 

[BAC1967]

One of my Automats does the same thing. When it happens I put the lens cap on to make the second exposure then move on. I guess I’ve learned to live with it. If it gets worse ill send it in for servicing.

 

[reddesert]

I am double-dog sure that you are supposed to turn the crank backward before firing the shutter. I have just an Automat or K4-something without the deliberate-double-exposure feature, but I think this is true for all crank Rolleiflexes (and similar crank TLRs such as Yashicamat). From the HTML-ized Automat manual at https://www.butkus.org/chinon/rollei/rolleiflex_automat/rolleiflex_automat.htm :

Swing out crank (4), turn it until it stops with one continuous swing (5) and then back again until the next stop (6)!​

It is now locked, until the automatically wound shutter is released. The simple rule then reads:​

If the crank can be turned, it must be turned - once in each direction until it stops, until it locks!​

When advancing the film to exposure No. 1 some 4 to 5 complete crank turns are required. During the last turn a slight resistance of the mechanism must be overcome as the counter moves from 0 to 1. If it should happen that the crank reaches starting position when it stops, reverse direction one full turn, so that it locks!​

 

[McDiesel]

k, I'm hopeful! keeping fingers crossed

 

[MattKing]

k, I'm hopeful! keeping fingers crossed

Word to the wise.
It is tough to wind a Rolleiflex with your fingers crossed

 

[250swb]

Yeah, after advancing the film you should turn the crank backwards until it stops, then press the shutter.