Failed negatives. What happened?

cerber0s · Sep 10, 2023

I got dark (light green f printing) marks on some of the frames. It’s a 12 frame bulk loaded film and I got the marks on frames 1-4, 6, and 7. Not on 5, and nothing after 7. Could it be the film touching itself on the reel? A light leak in the camera would be more consistent in it’s shape and location, right?

MattKing · Sep 10, 2023

cerber0s said:
Could it be the film touching itself on the reel?

Yes, based on the "light green" reference.
If you try re-fixing the film, those parts may go clear.

Don_ih · Sep 10, 2023

You look to have some serious light leaks there.

cmacd123 · Sep 10, 2023

loks like a stanless steel reel loading rpoblem (I hate those things) with aos some light leaks and prohaps too hot chemistry. Multiple problems in my guesses.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

Don_ih said:
You look to have some serious light leaks there.

Shouldn’t light leaks be more consistent in shape and location?

cmacd123 said:
loks like a stanless steel reel loading rpoblem (I hate those things) with aos some light leaks and prohaps too hot chemistry. Multiple problems in my guesses.

It’s not a stainless reel, the developer was Rodinal 1:200.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

MattKing said:
Yes, based on the "light green" reference.
If you try re-fixing the film, those parts may go clear.

That’s a good test! I’ll try, thanks.

Huub · Sep 11, 2023

That looks like a light leak somewhere in your system. Could be your camera or your bulkloader. I would check the camera seals and then shoot a factory loaded film, to check what causes the issue.

Castrillo · Sep 11, 2023

There is glazing due to light ingress before development.
There is chemical contamination or fixer in bad condition in a frame.
The agitation in the developing process has probably been excessive and bands of uneven density can be seen.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

Huub said:
That looks like a light leak somewhere in your system. Could be your camera or your bulkloader. I would check the camera seals and then shoot a factory loaded film, to check what causes the issue.

I should probably have mentioned that I had no issues with the factory loaded color film I shot and developed two weeks ago. I guess the camera could have developed a problem since then.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

Castrillo said:
There is glazing due to light ingress before development.
There is chemical contamination or fixer in bad condition in a frame.
The agitation in the developing process has probably been excessive and bands of uneven density can be seen.

The fixer is brand new. It was a semi stand development, so bands of uneven density would probably be too little agitation rather than excessive agitation.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

I’ll upload better photos of the negatives this afternoon (my afternoon )

koraks · Sep 11, 2023

Castrillo said:
There is glazing due to light ingress before development.

FYI: the commonly used term in English is "fogging", or "fog".
The bands of unevenness I would attribute primarily to fogging; the quality of the image of the negative strip doesn't really allow for much more to be said at this point, IMO.

I don't see the supposed fixer problem - only a specular highlight/reflection on the film surface in one frame, but better pictures might give more clues.

For now, the only thing I can see sure signs of is a light leak. It's not clear to me where it might have originated, but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say in the 35mm cassette and probably not the camera. In-camera light leaks tend to have at least one straight edge to them somewhere.

Don_ih · Sep 11, 2023

When you have light leaks like this:

that means light was shining through some sprocket holes and hitting the film behind. These are perfectly in line, so that suggests the film was wound (not spaced like on the development spool). That could happen in the cassette, if there's a problem with the felt or the top, or in the back of the camera, on the take-up side. Light seals at the camera back hinge are a common problem.

There's also the possibility that a slight amount of light leaked into your bulk loader. That looks less likely.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

A better photo of the negatives:

Castrillo · Sep 11, 2023

koraks said:
FYI: the commonly used term in English is "fogging", or "fog".
The bands of unevenness I would attribute primarily to fogging; the quality of the image of the negative strip doesn't really allow for much more to be said at this point, IMO.

I don't see the supposed fixer problem - only a specular highlight/reflection on the film surface in one frame, but better pictures might give more clues.

For now, the only thing I can see sure signs of is a light leak. It's not clear to me where it might have originated, but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say in the 35mm cassette and probably not the camera. In-camera light leaks tend to have at least one straight edge to them somewhere.

Thanks for the correction.

MattKing · Sep 11, 2023

cerber0s said:
A better photo of the negatives:

View attachment 348763

If the "smears" are black - you have light leaks.
If the "smears" are light grey, tan or grey/green, it was probably a problem with film touching itself on the reel.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

MattKing said:
If the "smears" are black - you have light leaks.
If the "smears" are light grey, tan or grey/green, it was probably a problem with film touching itself on the reel.

They’re black allright!

Sirius Glass · Sep 11, 2023

MattKing said:
If the "smears" are black - you have light leaks.
If the "smears" are light grey, tan or grey/green, it was probably a problem with film touching itself on the reel.

Great observation.

Focomatter · Sep 11, 2023

Note that the leak is worse on the lower frame numbers. It would be useful to see the even earlier frames - the leader and blank shots. Thus far the leak is consistent with having come through the felt light trap of the film cassette (assuming this is the kind you used).

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

Focomatter said:
Note that the leak is worse on the lower frame numbers. It would be useful to see the even earlier frames - the leader and blank shots. Thus far the leak is consistent with having come through the felt light trap of the film cassette (assuming this is the kind you used).

That’s the entire roll, except the leader.

The cassette is brand new as I figured I’d used the old ones way past their expected lifetime by now. I’m developing a test roll from another cassette right now.

koraks · Sep 11, 2023

Evidently a light leak, but whether it's the cassette or the camera can't be determined with certainty yet. I still put my money on the former, specifically the felt light trap.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

Here’s the test roll. I’d say it’s inconclusive. As you can see, there’s a light leak even here. I of course used the same camera and same bulk loader, but a different cassette. Both cassettes are brand new by the way.

There is one other significant difference though. The first roll I rolled up and put straight into the camera, then the camera spent a weekend out in the sun with me. This second roll was rolled up and put straight into a black canister, then straight into the camera where it was exposed in less than 10 minutes, in a dimly lit room. I did at one point shine a flashlight around the camera, but forgot to note what frame I was on (face palm meme here).

The way things are looking it might very well be the camera. In that case it looks like it would be along one of the vertical sides of the back door (Leica M3).

koraks · Sep 11, 2023

Well, easy enough to eliminate. Try a different camera. Maybe even with the first cassette; the one used on the strip with the worst problems.

cerber0s · Sep 11, 2023

koraks said:
Well, easy enough to eliminate. Try a different camera. Maybe even with the first cassette; the one used on the strip with the worst problems.

I’ll do that! I checked the camera, the light seals look brand new (it’s been CLA’d, and the way the back door is designed, it would take a lot for it to let any light in. I also went back and checked the factory loaded Fuji Superia I shot less than two weeks ago with the same camera, and it’s clean. Not a single sign of fogging anywhere.

This is annoying. I’m’m almost out of film in the bulk loader, and now I don’t know if I dare reload it with the Ilford HP5 or not.

Focomatter · Sep 11, 2023

Harder to explain the repeated fog pattern from the M3 back door. Repeat pattern easy to explain if that is how the film stacked up on the spool inside the cassette - light penetrated the layers of film on one side. But difficult to explain how first two frames were not affected!!!

Edit - they are not the first two frames - looked at the frame numbers more closely with my reading glasses on! It would be helpful if the strips were in order and all same side up so as not to be backwards. One should be able to read the numbers correctly.

A possible solution is to just take more blanks at the beginning wasting a bit of film, maybe close to a foot!

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