Fabriano Art.: Newbie Choosing Pl/Pt Paper

Hi all,

Thinking seriously about trying pl/pt, I went to my local art store to loook at what papers they carry. I'm overseas, so having a local source for paper can save me some money off shipping. The only paper they had that I've seen mentioned here and elsewhere is the Fabriano Artistico, in both white and extra white. They sell it for $5/sheet of 20x30inches, not sure how well that compares to paper in the states.
Anyway, I've read that the FAEW needs an extra step in Oxallic acid to get rid of the buffering, and was curious if that's true also of the regular white. Also, since they have a large selection of other papers, including most Fabriano papers, I was wondering what characteristics I should look for in a paper when using it for pl/pt. The people at the store aren't very helpful or knowledgable, so I really need to know what to ask for. They also have a bunch of watercolor papers, some from Windsor/something with the paper being Cottman, which I thought might be the COT320 I've heard about here.
As far as chemicals, I thought of getting the B&S Na2O kit, but was curious if there was a good cheaper process I can try first to check the papers and my skills before doing the expensive stuff (other than coating w water).
Any and all help is greatly appreciated,

GB

Others will certainly chime in, but here's my quick response to your message.

First, all Fabriano Artistico papers, regardless of finish or color, will require the oxallic acid bath. It's not THAT big a pain in the neck, but it's essential. And, even WITH the acid bath I still had difficulty clearing in EDTA and so I abandoned it. The Cottman paper you've referred to is totally unfamiliar to me. It probably has no relation to COT320 which is a paper distributed by Bergger and sold various places on the internet. You don't say where overseas you are, but I know it's available in the EU. In general, the internet is a good source of information on papers that are compatible with alt processes. You can type in "papers for alt processes" or variations on that theme into your favorite search engine and spend a day reading about people's opinions and experience. It's important to note that not every paper that works for one works for all. Some people love Fabriano, but it was a little disappointing to me. I love COT320, but it just feels too expensive for me. I've used the Weston Diploma that people have identified as a good cheap alternative, and found it was a little fragile, and prone to staining when using hot developer. My favorite paper, now discontinued so I've begun to hoard it, is Rising Stonehenge. Cheap, clears fast, strong, fairly smooth, good color.

As for cheaper processes, you might search for "Kallitype" in this forum and also on alternativephotography.com. Sandy King did a write up for an easy to follow way to get started in Kallitype. It's cheaper in that it doesn't use any noble metals, and would allow you to learn how to do coating. Bostick sells a Kallitype kit, too.

Personally, PtPd is the only thing that really keeps me on the analog side anymore. It's really unique. Good luck.

Neal

GB, Happy New Year to you!! Hope the new year brings you many happy days shooting in Israel (I think that is correct). As Neal pointed out, the acid bath is needed for the Artistico papers. If you are planning to add any gum layers to your process you might want to go ahead and give it a try. If not, you might find some Arches Platine (have read that this is the basis of COT320 - but do not know that as a fact).

Tried to get a thread started on this subject a few days ago, and could not get any interest...would have been perfect.

Some additional papers that I have not used, but are listed in the Arentz book:

Bienfang Graphics 360
Crane's Kid Finish - thin like the Weston Diploma paper
Crane's Plantinotype - I have used this and have some of the old stock, it started having a problem early last year I think.
Fabriano Murillo
Fabriano Perusia
Gampi
Lenox 100 (Parsons)
Rising Drawing Bristol **
Stratmore Series 500 Bristol
Rives BFK - some say to use oxalic acid on this one (Kerik use's this for some of his work if I recall correctly)
Van Gelder Simili Japon - note this was suggested to be the same as the Socorro papers that B&S used to carry, but again no facts to back it up.

** The Rising plant closed as Neal mentioned, I also like the Stonehenge paper, so while you may find some old stock be aware that someone else bought the name at least and you may indeed find a Stonehenge paper. If you find some give a try, it may work.

With Plt/Pld there are papers out there that could work and no one has either tried them or reported their results, so you might just try some. Also, it seems that papers change one that works no longer does, and one that does not work suddenly does.

As for the Na2, I would not worry so much about that right now. Try printing using a mix of Ferric Oxalate (FO), Palladium Chloride and developing in either Potassium Oxalate or Ammonium Citrate. The contrast agent is not needed for all negatives, and indeed you hope that it is not needed (but it will be). There are some good references on line, and the Sullivan and Weese book and the Dick Arentz books are 2 that I would say are a must if you continue printing. If I recall one of the vendors in either EU or UK stated they were going to carry the kits from B&S - sorry don't recall (Silverprint maybe), but it is one of the threads here - maybe look for a thread on FO (Ferric Oxalate).

Send me a PM if you want, be happy to share what little I know.

Best,

I'm pretty sure that Platine and COT320 are not on the same base. Platine looks more ecru/beige than COT320 to me. If you want to try a variety of papers, give Bostick & Sullivan a ring and ask them for a sampler pack. They will send you a package with a half-dozen varieties of paper.

You may be correct Scott, but here is a (there was a url link here which no longer exists) as to why I made the comment I did (if I find the other links I have come across will post them as well). Good idea about contacting B&S, but it was my understand that GB was hoping to source local.

TheFlyingCamera said:

give Bostick & Sullivan a ring and ask them for a sampler pack. They will send you a package with a half-dozen varieties of paper.

Click to expand...

B&S have been very nice with papers to me recently and the sample pack is worth the postage you get two sheets each of COT320, Weston Diploma parchment, Kozo light, Cranes Kid finish in both Ecru and white ... I'm sure they'd send two or three if you ask nicely and offer to cover the extra cost.

They sent me a xmas voucher which I ordered a 25 pack of 11x14 COT320 with but they sent a 25 pack of 16x20" - i.e. 100 sheets 8x10" I'm very grateful... any complaints about service (lack of communication) I now take back (there was a good reason) and say a big thank you!

If your process is anything like mine you'll find the COT320 is a winner, just bite that cost factor and go with it, if you are using NA2 why waste it on something relatively untested ? unless of course you enjoy experimentation... something I certainly cant fault

I use the Kid finish for low-con printing and proofing negs in much cheaper cyanotype before working them in Pt/Pd, you might want to give that a crack - I have a pack of weston diploma ready to be tried also, but have only just received my first NA2 and ziatype chems myself (working with the #1/potassium chlorate/#3 up till now with some great and some not so great results) - gotta cut the factors down so I'll just concentrate on the COT320 for now

Actually I have used a Cottman something or other but it would take a long time to dig up the info on it. The stuff I used was recommended to me by another printer and it was a Japanese paper and I think it had a percentage of bamboo in it. I remember that it coated well and printed fine except that on my first and only testing of it I didn't get the dmax I was hoping for.

Ok I just rememberd where I had the information. The paper was called Cotman Take Bristol. It was recommended to me by Wynn White and he uses/used it for printing Vandyke. Nice smooth tones but weaker than I am used to in the blacks. Perhaps that could be worked out.

http://www.art-maruni.com/gazai/book/cotman-hp.html

Here is a place to order Cotman Take Bristol