f2 and Faster That Covers 6x6?

Fragomeni · Jun 22, 2011

Hi all. I'm hoping some of you can help me out with this one. I'm looking to build a list of lenses to look for. The criteria are: f2 and faster and must cover 6x6. Preferably within the normal focal length range for MF. The lens does not need to be in a shutter so barrel lenses are acceptable. Age and coating is not an issue.

I'll be attaching this to a Bronica S2A with Type II (tilting) bellows for those who are curious

MattKing · Jun 22, 2011

Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 for their 645 cameras might cover 6x6 (some of their lenses have rectangular masks built right in).

Tony-S · Jun 22, 2011

Wasn't there an f/1.9 lens for the P67?

tomalophicon · Jun 22, 2011

There is a 110mm F2 Hasselblad lens.

jochen · Jun 22, 2011

it makes no sense to use such fast lenses in MF since the DOF zone is so small that the film is not flat enough to give sharp pictures from corner to corner. Furthermore the lenses are much more difficult to correct and are very large and heavy and very expensive. These are the reasons why we do not have more faster lenses for "normal" MF photography.

Fragomeni · Jun 22, 2011

it makes no sense to use such fast lenses in MF since the DOF zone is so small that the film is not flat enough to give sharp pictures from corner to corner. Furthermore the lenses are much more difficult to correct and are very large and heavy and very expensive. These are the reasons why we do not have more faster lenses for "normal" MF photography.

It makes plenty of sense to do so. Why? Because I want to. Simple as that. There is still a side of photography that is more concerned with creative expression then with technicalities and "rules". I'll strap just about anything to a camera that'll throw an image and a lot of the time a beautiful result can be produced. I have images made with all kinds of optics that "make no sense" to use with whatever camera they were attached to and they sell very very well. Beauty is not governed by optical principles or lens rules. Don't get me wrong, I see your post as an effort to inform and that is appreciated but within the confines of what I'm doing it's a moot point. I suppose I'm not pursuing what would be considered "normal" photography so the rules that run that game dont apply to me

Now lets please stick to the point. I'm asking for lenses that people know of that fit the criteria. The only perimeters are those which I listed. I'm not asking for opinions on why one thing is more suitable for a purpose then another. I'd appreciate it if the thread stayed on topic and didn't get dragged off into a conversation that has nothing to do with finding answers to the question I've posted. Thanks everyone.

Joachim_I · Jun 22, 2011

Tony-S said:
Wasn't there an f/1.9 lens for the P67?

If so then not from Pentax. Their fastest 6x7 lens was the 2.4/105mm. However, one probably could argue that the 4.0/800mm lens was actually faster (at least in relation to its focal length). One would need a 1.19/100mm lens to obtain a 4.0/800mm lens with three 2x-converters. That's pretty fast.

Dan Fromm · Jun 22, 2011

Hmm. IIRC, the Bronica S and derivatives have a falling mirror (or is it a split mirror?) so can use lenses with shorter back focus than most 6x6 SLRs. Francesco, please verify this and tell us the shortest back focus that will clear the mirror.

I ask because there are a number of relatively fast 100 mm or so lenses for aerial cameras that shoot 6x6 on 70 mm film. These beasties have very short back focus. Go look on eBay, I think there are several 98/1.4 Wild Heerbrugg Falconars on offer. Pricey, but whether you can afford one is between you and your credit limit.

Mackinaw · Jun 22, 2011

There's a Schneider 80mm F2.0 lens for the Rolleiflex 6000 series. Supposed to be an excellent lens too. Expensive and hard to find though.

Jim B.

chioque · Jun 22, 2011

Also Graflex/Norita 66 has Noritar 80mm f/2.0

Fotoguy20d · Jun 22, 2011

Goerz made a lens called the photometon - 75mm f2. It was made for 1920s era photobooths. There's also a B&L version but I've been told the construction of the two is slightly different. I have the B&L but haven't tried to use it - it'll cover 6x6 certainly, maybe even 6x7 or 6x9 - it's been a while since I looked at it.

Dan

Fragomeni · Jun 22, 2011

Hmm. IIRC, the Bronica S and derivatives have a falling mirror (or is it a split mirror?) so can use lenses with shorter back focus than most 6x6 SLRs. Francesco, please verify this and tell us the shortest back focus that will clear the mirror.

Dan, yes this is my understanding as well. The S2A has a falling mirror. I believe the later models have the split mirror but I could be wrong. I'm not sure what the shortest back focus that will clear the mirror is. How exactly to I figure that out?

Also Graflex/Norita 66 has Noritar 80mm f/2.0

Yes, I've been looking everywhere for Norita 66. So far no luck.

Fragomeni · Jun 22, 2011

Goerz made a lens called the photometon - 75mm f2. It was made for 1920s era photobooths. There's also a B&L version but I've been told the construction of the two is slightly different. I have the B&L but haven't tried to use it - it'll cover 6x6 certainly, maybe even 6x7 or 6x9 - it's been a while since I looked at it.

Can you check this out and let us know?? Thanks!

nhemann · Jun 22, 2011

To your point that you don't care what kind of crazy glass you put on your camera, what about building up your own lenses? Its not too hard to find lab/research grade optics. I'm in the academic/planning stages for my own right now but there some memebers here that could definitely help you out.

Fragomeni · Jun 22, 2011

To your point that you don't care what kind of crazy glass you put on your camera, what about building up your own lenses? Its not too hard to find lab/research grade optics. I'm in the academic/planning stages for my own right now but there some memebers here that could definitely help you out.

Now your walking up my alley! I've been making homebrew lenses for a while now. Mainly working with found optics and using them as either single elements or building them up into interesting multi-element combinations. Admittedly, my knowledge of proper lens design is lacking but all I've ever been interested in to date has been hombrew projects I can do in my workshop. I have been entertaining the idea of bringing in an engineer friend who has access to the facilities of one of the colleges out here so that I might be able to start experimenting with grinding down my own lenses but that a future thing for now.

BobD · Jun 22, 2011

There is (was) a 75mm F/1.9 Oscillo-Anastigmat by Wollensak but I don't know its coverage. It was made for photographing oscilloscope screens.

Mark Fisher · Jun 22, 2011

Check out Alan Greene's book Primitive Photography. He has some guidelines for building your own lenses. I made a two element lens pretty easily for an 8x10 camera I made. The only trick is that I couldn't find a way to predict the coverage easily. I think if you design it as a normal or longer lens, I think the coverage should be decent.

ic-racer · Jun 22, 2011

Food for thought:

An F1.7 80mm lens would have a pupillary diameter of about 47mm. The common large format 300mm f5.6 lens has a pupillary diameter of 53mm. If you add a +10 diopter lens to a large format 300mm lens, it will shorten the focal length to around 80mm. How much smaller the entrance pupil will be with the +10 diopter in front, I don't know without doing it and measuring, but I'd think you would have a pretty fast home-made 80mm lens with that setup. Perhaps f2.0

Diapositivo · Jun 23, 2011

You might ask an estimate to somebody specializing in optical constructions, such as:

http://www.adrianololli.com/

Fabrizio

PS No relation with Adriano Lolli, I never bought anything from him, I just saw him on eBay and thought it useful to remember.

f2 and Faster That Covers 6x6?

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