f/stop printing versus real-time.

Sirius Glass · Dec 4, 2011

RalphLambrecht said:
I can offer this link:

Dead Link Removed

It's an introduction but give you all you need to get started.

Bingo!

This is what I use instead of buying an F/Stop Timer. The saved money goes to buying lenses.

Dave Krueger · Dec 13, 2011

After reading through this thread, I am thinking of getting myself a f-stop timer for xmas. Actually, I'm leaning toward the RH Designs Analyzer Pro. Is it correct to assume the Analyzer Pro has everything the Stock Clock Pro has in addition to an enlarging meter?

I've heard that measuring light on the baseboard can be problematic the more off axis you go with the meter. In other words, measurements get less accurate the closer you get to the edge of the frame. Does the Analyzer Pro suffer from this problem?

Dave Krueger · Dec 13, 2011

Oops. The Analyzer Pro does not include all the timer features of the Stop Clock Pro. They have a nice handy little comparison chart.

RH Designs · Dec 13, 2011

Dave - the Analyser's sensor sees what the paper sees, so "cosine correction" as it's called is not necessary. Some meters have their sensor at the bottom of a tube which can affect measurements if the angle is sufficient to cause a shadow, ours doesn't.

The Analyser's timer is simpler than the StopClock but it still uses the f-stop principle and has an easy-to-use burn-in feature in place of the stored exposure sequences.

pentaxuser · Dec 13, 2011

Rh Designs is one of the few sites that always repays examination when considering its excellent products. It is very comprehensive and even includes an instruction manual to download and videos to watch.

The excellent service on top is the "icing on the cake"

pentaxuser

Dave Krueger · Dec 13, 2011

Thanks, Richard. I've been watching the videos and reading through the user manuals. I'm leaning toward the Stop Clock/Zonemaster combo. I'm trying to imagine how my workflow will change based on the timer's capabilities. Making prints with fewer test strips sounds attractive. Also, I like the idea of being able to set up more complicated sequential exposures for dodging and burning. I've never done split grade printing, but it would be nice to have the dual channels for that if I ever try it.

To be honest, I would rather have a single unit with all the features of the Stop Clock and Zonemaster combined even if it cost as much as the two products combined.

RH Designs · Dec 14, 2011

Yeah, that would be nice but there's no way we could squeeze both into the same box with only 8 buttons unfortunately, and engineering a completely new product is out of the question given sales volumes these days. I use the combo but I don't use the connection facility - I use the ZoneMaster to get a work print and then refine it with the help of test strips and the StopClock. Chris is able to make judgements on the grey scale alone whereas I prefer to judge by the actual image. People differ, so we offer the choice .

If you want to use the split grade method then you're definitely better off with the additional timing capabilities of the StopClock, but bear in mind that metering a split grade exposure is trickier than using a single exposure through the relevant filter.

Dave Krueger · Dec 14, 2011

Well, I also like the memories, which I assume allow for a sequence of exposures for complicated dodge and burn steps. I don't use glass negative carriers, so I first heat up the head by turning on the lamp (with the lens covered). Then I turn off the lamp, uncover the lens and immediately start the main exposure (dodging as necessary). Immediately following that (before the negative cools down), I do burn-ins which often involves more than one timed exposure. For complicated dodging, I sometimes break up the main exposure. It sounds like the memories would facilitate this fairly well, but I'm still thinking about whether I could make do with the Analyzer alone.

For better or worse, I am able to carry out some fairly complex manipulation sequences using my simple electronic timer and a metronome, but it's easy to screw it up if I pick up the wrong dodging tool or if I'm distracted by an intruding thought. A song I like will come on the radio and suddenly I will lose count on the metronome clicks.

Does anyone ever complain that the meter isn't sensitive enough to read dense negatives at high magnifications (24X, for example)?

Dave Krueger · Dec 14, 2011

Richard, now that you mention it, keeping the meter separate from the time could be appealing and maybe less confusing for me. That's a factor I hadn't considered...

Ken N · Dec 14, 2011

I had purchased both the ZoneMaster II and StopClock Pro. That was the best photographic equipment decision I have ever made. I would do so again in a heatbeat!

Counting metronome clicks? That is serious dark-ages stuff, there.

It will take you about two weeks to convert over to the RHDesigns and F-Stop printing methodology, but once you do, you'll NEVER go back and you'll wonder how you ever managed before.

I was doing custom printing for other people at the time, and my payback in labor and materials was about two weeks. Frankly, I'll never step foot in a darkroom again without my RHDesigns gear.

Is that endorsement enough?

Dave Krueger · Dec 14, 2011

Ken, sorry if I came across as looking for endorsements. I was mostly just looking for specific answers to a couple concerns that I had.

Thanks for the info, everyone. Aside from the question of sensitivity, I think I have all the info I need to decide.

I have to admit, there is no shortage of discussion about these products on Apug and elsewhere and I have to hand it to Richard for his patience in repeatedly having to answer the same questions. I apologize for not doing a more thorough investigation before posing my repeat of the same questions.

Thanks again, all.

RH Designs · Dec 15, 2011

Sensitivity-wise, I don't know the answer in lux terms but given that the maximum exposure time is 240 seconds, sensitivity is not often an issue. I don't think we've ever had a user say it's inadequate anyway. Unless you're making poster-size prints with a colour enlarger on a slow paper you should be fine.

Don't worry about asking questions Dave, the only one that gets my back up is "do you ship to <insert country of your choice>?" when it says right there on the home page "we regularly ship to the USA and worldwide" .

O, and thanks Ken, check's in the post!

Dave Krueger · Dec 15, 2011

Thanks, Richard. Order placed. Looking forward to working with this new tool.

Ken N · Dec 15, 2011

Richard, I'm STILL waiting for the last three checks.

As to the sensitivity, I have run into this a couple of times. I have an old 4x5 enlarger which is anything, but bright. Combine that with a lens which the max aperture is F6.3 and raise it up a ways. Getting readings from the highlights (darkest spots on the neg) is down into ambient lighting. Do not have any safe lights on.

But we're really talking about extremes where my exposure times are up around three minutes.

Dave Krueger · Dec 15, 2011

Now that I think about it, if there's anything I have plenty of, it's brightness. Most of my prints are 8x10s with no cropping. On both enlargers I almost always have to add neutral density filtration. I set the Chromega to LOW and even then often dial in C/Y/M filtration so I can use the optimum lens aperture without going to very short exposure times. For the Beseler, I routinely use a 4X ND filter. So, even going up beyond 16x20 I should have plenty of light budget to keep the brightness high enough for reasonable exposure times.

For occasions where the meter won't handle it, I will just revert to test strips. I can always meter with the lens wide open and adjust the exposure for the printing aperture to get into the ballpark for a test strip.

RH Designs · Dec 16, 2011

It doesn't sound as if you'll have sensitivity problems Dave! If you do, you can measure contrast either with the lens wide open and/or at a smaller print size. Then go to the desired magnification and aperture and with the meter set to the contrast grade you established previously, meter a shadow. Increase the exposure until the LED moves to the shadow end of the scale, and that's your exposure.

Thanks for your order, I'll get that out as soon as I can.

Richard Jepsen · Jan 11, 2012

I teach a modified f-stop method to find base exposure. We don't have f/stop timers but a chart is posted. I resisted teaching the technique as the enlarger optics were 3 element with poor performance wide open. However, the f/stop method was easier for students to find the basic exposure. After I changed how I taught exposure I replaced 3 element Belar lenses with improved Nikkor glass. You make do with what you got in a community DR.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 12, 2012

Keith Tapscott. said:
One of the reasons I started this thread Brad. I do find the concept of f/stop timing interesting and I wanted to read the views and opinions of other darkroom users whether they find the use of a dedicated f/stop timer to be worthwhile compared to using a regular enlarger timer.

this may help

f/stop printing versus real-time.

Sirius Glass

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f/stop printing versus real-time.

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