f/22 @ 1/1000

bvy · Aug 4, 2010

In practical terms, how does one get results shooting at f/22 @ 1/1000? I was reading that this was the MO of one of my favorite photographers, Mark Cohen. He used a 28mm lens for his classic work and was known for getting dangerously close to his subjects. I believe he used a Leica (theres at least one video on YouTube, but its in German). f/22 obviously blows open your DOF to the point where you dont have to think much about focusing but does this hold when youre inches from your subject?

Honestly, coming from digital, I was surprised to hear that one could get any sort of usable results allowing so little light to reach the film. I wonder what sort of film Cohen used and how he developed it. Cohen shot black and white (primarily) but has done a lot of work in color also. What 35mm films are available today that can be pushed to give results using such extreme settings? (Or maybe they're not so extreme for film shooters...)

eddym · Aug 4, 2010

Delta 3200 should do it.

Ian Grant · Aug 4, 2010

Even with a 3200 ISO film you can only shoot f22 @1/1000th second on a very bright sunny day.

So in real life situations it just can't be done with 100 or 400 ISO films.

Ian

mrred · Aug 4, 2010

I use Neopan 400 @ 3200 in my Kiev4a for this purpose. I close the iris as much as possible to not have to worry about focusing and the shutter speed as much over 1/500 as possible as I tend to shoot stealth-from-the-hip.

This one is Neopan400@3200,Kiev4a,F22,1/1250 souped in XTol (1:2, 20 mins, Bes Motor base).

The full size is at http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4762139330_9db10d3f43_o_d.jpg for those that want to peek at the grain.

Now that is 35mm. I would imagine that MF or LF could fair far greater.

2F/2F · Aug 4, 2010

'1000 at f/22 is EV 19 for a 100 speed film. You will never get this much light in an incident reading from natural light (at least not on Earth). So, take down the EV to something you can actually encounter, and change the ISO to compensate. EV 15 (sunny 16 conditions, give or take a bit) with a 1600 speed film will get you that shutter and aperture combination. So, if you use a super fast film in bright light on a clear day, it is possible. Use Delta 3200 in a speed-supporting developer (It's ISO film speed is 1000, not 3200, so rating it at 1600 will underexpose it by 2/3 stop.) for black and white, or Superia 1600 for color.

2F/2F · Aug 4, 2010

2F/2F said:
So, take down the EV to something you can actually encounter, and change the ISO to compensate. EV 15 (sunny 16 conditions, give or take a bit) with a 1600 speed film will get you that shutter and aperture combination.

I realize now that while this was my thought process to arrive at the film speed needed to achieve that combination in EV 15 light, there is an easier way to get there: Take your EV 19 with ISO 100 film, and simply knock off one number from the EV for each time you double the ISO, until you get down to EV 15.

Michael W · Aug 4, 2010

There was a feature on Mark Cohen in pdn magazine a few years ago. Can't lay my hands on a copy but I do have these relevant quotes from it. You'll notice he's talking about 1/125 of a sec, not 1/1,000.

I was attracted to this style because as I walked in the street I would see certain triggering elements in the scene. Like a neck for instance, and it was that that neck that I knew was the operative fragment of the scene. So I went after it.

The easiest way to do all of this was with a 21mm lens, at first, because with Tri-X film and the camera set at f/22 and pre-focused to 18 inches, I had a depth of field from about 10 inches to 3 feet. I could shoot at 1/125 sec. After I fixed up this zone of focus I could just walk by and almost rip off this very close and intimate picture of the neck in a broad scene.

I did not look through the viewfinder to make these picture. I had a good sense of the frame and what would basically be in it. Of course I missed a lot of pictures by not judging this too well but mostly I knew that I was right on the picture. I started to do this with a 28mm lens and a flash to increase the sharpness and speed at which I could walk by the subject. This intensified the photographic action itself. The blast of sudden light. The interjection of the camera and flash was beginning to enhance the action of the scene itself.

Ian Grant · Aug 4, 2010

1/125th @ f22 is practical and way different to the title

Ian

Jeff Kubach · Aug 4, 2010

To get that expousre reading is on a ocean beach on a summer day.(useing a high ISO/ASA film)

Jeff

ic-racer · Aug 4, 2010

Where did you read that?

Shooting at f22 with 35mm will give the somewhat fuzzy "Joel Meyrowitz" f90 on 8x10 look, which I don't see in Cohens work.

I'm familiar with his use of flash. A high power flashes can have a duration as long as 1/1000

bvy · Aug 4, 2010

Good discussion. Thanks.

The quotes are interesting, Goldie. I read elsewhere (maybe in print) that he would shoot at 1/1000 to freeze his subjects. I can't really find any internet reference to back that up -- only this where he discusses using these settings on one particular shot:
http://colinpantall2.blogspot.com/2007/12/mark-cohen-grim-street.html

Jeff Kubach · Aug 4, 2010

ic-racer said:
Where did you read that?

Shooting at f22 with 35mm will give the somewhat fuzzy "Joel Meyrowitz" f90 on 8x10 look, which I don't see in Cohens work.

I'm familiar with his use of flash. A high power flashes can have a duration as long as 1/1000

From my own experiece.

Jeff

pentaxuser · Aug 4, 2010

mrred said:
I use Neopan 400 @ 3200 in my Kiev4a for this purpose. I close the iris as much as possible to not have to worry about focusing and the shutter speed as much over 1/500 as possible as I tend to shoot stealth-from-the-hip.

This one is Neopan400@3200,Kiev4a,F22,1/1250 souped in XTol (1:2, 20 mins, Bes Motor base).

The full size is at http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4762139330_9db10d3f43_o_d.jpg for those that want to peek at the grain.

Now that is 35mm. I would imagine that MF or LF could fair far greater.

I checked this out on flickr and it looks pretty damn good to me at even less than 1/1000th(1/1250) and with a 400 film pushed to 3200. It doesn't look to be a particularily bright day either.

Well done.

pentaxuser

mrred · Aug 4, 2010

ic-racer said:
Where did you read that?

Shooting at f22 with 35mm will give the somewhat fuzzy "Joel Meyrowitz" f90 on 8x10 look, which I don't see in Cohens work.

I'm familiar with his use of flash. A high power flashes can have a duration as long as 1/1000

I'm not sure many 35mm cameras can handle a sync rate that high.

Rudeofus · Aug 4, 2010

mrred said:
I'm not sure many 35mm cameras can handle a sync rate that high.

Doesn't have to. If ambient light barely registers (which is the case with ISO100, F/22 and 1/200s) and the flash duration itself is 1/1000s (which is the case with compact flashes set to 1/4 output), you have, as far as motion blur is concerned, an effective exposure time of 1/1000s.

f/22 @ 1/1000

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