Eye dominance and ability to compose a photo

gone · Dec 26, 2022

From my intensive research on this subject (a few minutes on google), apparently the left side of our brain controls the right side of our body, or environment, and vice versa. However, the eyes seem to be the exception, and it appears that both sides of the brain control both eyes because the optic nerve ties together before getting signals up to the brain.

If there is an issue between the L and R eye, it could be related to one eye being stronger than the other in terms of clarity. Or it could be several things. I would start w/ a good eye exam w/ the best optometrist you can find in your area, they may know a lot more than google. From there, you may get a recommendation for something else, including a visit to an ophthalmologist. They're the specialists when it comes to eyes.

It's conceivable that it could even be unrelated to the eyes. Could be a brain issue or an issue getting the shared signals up to the brain, but I would start w/ the eyes.

Vaughn · Dec 26, 2022

Both my eyes are equally bad...and healthy

As determined by my trained and skilled practitioners, with up-to-date (just kidding, Humboldt County?!) equipment.

Stereo vision has always been evolutionarily important -- at least we don't have to dip our heads like lizards and birds.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 26, 2022

Vaughn said:
I print from in-camera negatives in platinum and in carbon transfer. The carbon prints, since it is a transfer process, reverses the image. So while I will often be considering one process over the other when composing, I do find that both versions of an image can equally work as well, just perhaps not in the same exact way.

Under the darkcloth, for a platinum print, I just mentally spin the image on the GG 180 degrees on the same plane. Since carbon printing reverses the image, for those I just mentally spin the GG image on the horizontal axis along its center. Anyway, the end result is that I end up composing an image that is mentally orientated the same as print will be.

I still remember the first time, after a long session under the darkcloth, that when I took the darkcloth off and looked around, the world looked upside down for an instant, then returned to 'normal'.

Something my prof mentioned often -- while turning student's photos upside down on the critique board.

Mike Lopez said:
It takes some doing, but what you describe (upside down/laterally reversed) is one of the allures of the larger formats for me. If you can learn to let go of your conceptions of what the picture is of, but instead study how the image looks on the ground glass, you will eventually fail to even recognize what your brain is telling you is “correct.” There have been plenty of times when I’ve come out from under the dark cloth, looked at what the camera was pointed at, and thought “Huh. How about that. I had no idea.”

I'm biased because I just started with LF photography. But I still feel that general composition is better right side up. Maybe if you are honing in on objects and forms and shapes for BW photography, upside down may be better. But for general photography, the rules of composition work right side up.

Also, you have the composition in mind before sticking your head under the dark cloth. You already honed in on the subject and layout. So basically, you're probably just tweaking the final edges under the cloth so upside down doesn't;t matter. I'm using my digital camera as a director's viewfinder. So there again, I plotted the composition before I even set up the tripod and selected the lens.

Vaughn · Dec 26, 2022

It is a comforting myth that looking at an image upside down will help one compose. It can help. It can hinder. It can be a neutral factor.

But for general photography, the rules of composition work right side up.

Would that be as in General Patton as played by G.C.Scott? Cause he'd say that rules will work whichever damn way up he wants them to.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2022

A 45 degree prism finder on a Medium Format camera would allow you to use either eye.

I can and do use either eye with my Hasseblad with the PME prism.

awty · Dec 26, 2022

Pieter12 said:
There is a simple test for eye dominance, and it usually does correspond to hand dominance, although more left-handers can be right-eye dominant rather than the other way around. Make a small hole (like a hole punch) in a piece of paper. Hold it at about arm's length, centered and look at a spot or object about 6 feet away, using both eyes. Then close one eye, left or right. The one that sees the spot is the dominant one.

You can just switch from one to the other, makes no difference.

Pieter12 · Dec 26, 2022

awty said:
You can just switch from one to the other, makes no difference.

Hold the paper further away.

Mike Lopez · Dec 26, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
But for general photography, the rules of composition work right side up.

There are rules to composition? Maybe in a high school photography class where the teacher gives an assignment to give the kids something to do. There are no rules of composition in the real world.

Alan Edward Klein said:
Also, you have the composition in mind before sticking your head under the dark cloth. You already honed in on the subject and layout. So basically, you're probably just tweaking the final edges under the cloth so upside down doesn't;t matter.

No, the composition is not in mind before I go under the dark cloth. That’s where the discovery and growth occur. I’m not tweaking anything under there—I’m finding the picture on the ground glass, and quite often it’s nothing like I assumed it would be. Moving past one’s assumptions is key to this.

Alan Edward Klein said:
I'm using my digital camera as a director's viewfinder. So there again, I plotted the composition before I even set up the tripod and selected the lens.

I promise you, there are a whole world of discoveries you might make if you set aside all the preconceptions (and “rules”) and dispensed with the “taking the picture before taking the picture” approach. The ubiquity of digital has killed quite a bit, unfortunately.

awty · Dec 26, 2022

Pieter12 said:
Hold the paper further away.

Makes no difference, if you start by using your right eye, every time you do it it will come up right side. If you start by using your left eye then that will be dominant. If you just do it randomly it will use which ever eye was last used......then after awhile you go cross eyed and can switch from one to the other.

Pieter12 · Dec 26, 2022

awty said:
Makes no difference, if you start by using your right eye, every time you do it it will come up right side. If you start by using your left eye then that will be dominant. If you just do it randomly it will use which ever eye was last used......then after awhile you go cross eyed and can switch from one to the other.

The instructions say to center the spot in the hole in the paper with both eyes open. Then without moving the paper or your head, close one eye and if you still see the spot through the hole, that is the dominant eye. If you don't then that eye is not dominant. Obviously, the distant spot you are focusing on needs to be relatively small.

Vaughn · Dec 26, 2022

How about training? I spent a considerable amount of my life using two eyes to guide a ball though a hoop from various distances and angles. Plus other things like hitting nails, using sledge hammers and axes, and sliding film holders into the back of cameras. I just quickly pointed at things around the room, then closed one eye, and then switched eyes. The object or place I was pointing was always halfway between where each eye centered.

Which comes first, the preference or the habit? Interesting stuff.

awty · Dec 27, 2022

Pieter12 said:
The instructions say to center the spot in the hole in the paper with both eyes open. Then without moving the paper or your head, close one eye and if you still see the spot through the hole, that is the dominant eye. If you don't then that eye is not dominant. Obviously, the distant spot you are focusing on needs to be relatively small.

I understand what to do, I have looked at several demonstrations. You can train your brain to do either. Brain on auto will just choose which eye you used last. Try it.

snusmumriken · Dec 27, 2022

cliveh said:
I don't agree, as if you look at any print upside down and it still works, it usually has good composition. Most LF users see the image upside down which is an aid to composition. Also the left right and right left is also an aid for composition. HCB was a past master at this, helped by a Vidom finder.

I’m just saying how it is for me. Believe me, I have tried to make this work in the hope that it could be useful. HCB was absolutely a master of composition. I have dutifully considered his photos in the mirror and upside down and the compositions don’t look ‘right’ to me unless right way up. It isn’t an issue of familiarity, because I’ve tried the same with new (to me) discoveries.

albireo · Dec 27, 2022

I'm completely left-handed, left-footed etc. My right appendices/bits are there to help but they do no relevant or creative work in my daily life.

I started photography with 35mm SLRs and never really got past the ergonomic challenges that all of you know and describe. I kind of worked around them, but never really found anything optimal.

There are, actually, features of some cameras which become basically inaccessible to left handed users. For instance, those of you familiar with Nikon cameras of the 90s (F801s, F90X, F601 etc) will know that these always have a couple of switches just to the right of the viewfinder, usually needed for focus lock, exposure lock (AF-L and AE-L) and a few other things (eg display illumination). These buttons have always been basically useless for me and when possible I've had to reconfigure the camera to reassign exposure lock and focus lock someplace else (I think the F100 allowed that). I've never really found an optimal place to place the focus lock controls, which has affected my photography a lot: I've ended up shying away from subjects that move and/or need to be decentred, and have ultimately preferred manual focus cameras. I've never learnt to use AF to its fullest potential. Up to these days, I tend to prefer central/radial compositions to eg rule of thirds etc.

This was until I discovered TLRs and waist level finders. I now do 90% of my photography with my TLRs and wonder why I didn't do it earlier. The large square screen and the two eyed composition process is a godsend. The lack of hard left/right control layout is fantastic. My right hand is only needed for film winding and shutter actuation (depending on the TLR). The left/right viewfinder swap doesn't bother me one bit, for some reason, perhaps because my compositions almost never have a left-right interest point, and rarely invite a left-right eye sweep from the observer.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 27, 2022

Mike Lopez said:
There are rules to composition? Maybe in a high school photography class where the teacher gives an assignment to give the kids something to do. There are no rules of composition in the real world.

No, the composition is not in mind before I go under the dark cloth. That’s where the discovery and growth occur. I’m not tweaking anything under there—I’m finding the picture on the ground glass, and quite often it’s nothing like I assumed it would be. Moving past one’s assumptions is key to this.

I promise you, there are a whole world of discoveries you might make if you set aside all the preconceptions (and “rules”) and dispensed with the “taking the picture before taking the picture” approach. The ubiquity of digital has killed quite a bit, unfortunately.

Without being able to see some of your pictures, there's no way to assess your points.

foc · Dec 27, 2022

Mike Lopez said:
There are no rules of composition in the real world

I am afraid I strongly disagree with this statement. There are visual rules to the composition that will enhance the appeal to the eye of the finished image.

I have found that those that say there are no rules to composition haven't bothered to learn the rules in the first place.

IMO learn the rules first and then know how you can break them but don't break them just for the sake of it.

Mike Lopez · Dec 27, 2022

foc said:
I have found that those that say there are no rules to composition haven't bothered to learn the rules in the first place.

I alluded to this earlier, but perhaps I should have said it more clearly. I took a high school photography class in which the teacher talked about those “rules.” I learned the “rules” and left them behind. Sorry about that.

snusmumriken · Dec 27, 2022

foc said:
I am afraid I strongly disagree with this statement. There are visual rules to the composition that will enhance the appeal to the eye of the finished image.

I have found that those that say there are no rules to composition haven't bothered to learn the rules in the first place.

IMO learn the rules first and then know how you can break them but don't break them just for the sake of it.

Surely those rules are post hoc? The first people to make pleasing compositions would not have had rules to follow.

I have seen a few web pages where famous photos are used to illustrate rules of composition. The analysis sometimes seems so far-fetched as to be laughable. And to me a key point is that composition must often happen in a second or less. In those circumstances, the process has to be instinctive or so deeply ingrained that it happens sub-consciously. There isn't time to think about the rule of thirds or to calculate the golden ratio, or consciously to make triangles or S-shapes, or to balance tonal masses.

For some (many?) people, arranging elements within a frame to make a pleasing composition (or to create a deliberately unsettling one) comes naturally without ever knowing there are rules. Others absorb a sense of what is pleasing from looking at art of all kinds. Some people unfortunately never get a sense for it even if they learn rules - maybe it doesn't matter enough to them? (Beats me why my left eye has higher standards than my right though!)

Pieter12 · Dec 27, 2022

Dominant eye is one factor that can directly affect composition. The right brain is considered to be more involved in spatial awareness and nonverbal skills. That would include composition. One could draw from this conclusion that a camera that can be viewed with both eyes, such as a view camera, or one with a waist-level finder, would lead to being able to take advantage of the right brain regardless of eye dominance. But smartphones fall into that category, too. And I don’t see a plethora of well-composed phots coming from those.

Pieter12 · Dec 27, 2022

snusmumriken said:
Surely those rules are post hoc? The first people to make pleasing compositions would not have had rules to follow.

I have seen a few web pages where famous photos are used to illustrate rules of composition. The analysis sometimes seems so far-fetched as to be laughable. And to me a key point is that composition must often happen in a second or less. In those circumstances, the process has to be instinctive or so deeply ingrained that it happens sub-consciously. There isn't time to think about the rule of thirds or to calculate the golden ratio, or consciously to make triangles or S-shapes, or to balance tonal masses.

For some (many?) people, arranging elements within a frame to make a pleasing composition (or to create a deliberately unsettling one) comes naturally without ever knowing there are rules. Others absorb a sense of what is pleasing from looking at art of all kinds. Some people unfortunately never get a sense for it even if they learn rules - maybe it doesn't matter enough to them? (Beats me why my left eye has higher standards than my right though!)

The so-called rules of composition predate photography by a long shot, coming from drawing and painting. They evolved from observation that certain geometries and arrangements can be more pleasing or evoke certain emotions.

Sirius Glass · Dec 27, 2022

Mike Lopez said:
I alluded to this earlier, but perhaps I should have said it more clearly. I took a high school photography class in which the teacher talked about those “rules.” I learned the “rules” and left them behind. Sorry about that.

Not really rules. Guidance and a starting place to learn about composition and its application.

destroya · Dec 27, 2022

I'm a mixed, screwed up bag according to my old Dr. I am left eye, left ear dominant, which is, I was told very rare for a right handed person. But I do many things left handed. piano (not that there is a dom hand in piano, just easier to do parts with my left hand than right) and guitar left handed, but always play drums right handed. sports right handed but could kick in soccer the same with either foot. needless to say Dr's loved running tests on me when I was young!

left eye does made it hard to compose in the beginning, but I just learned to deal with it (I also have a large nose). does it change how I see things, I dont know. I have never been able to experience it the right way, so to speak, so I have nothing to compare it to. I do find it easy to compose in 4x5. the upside down backwards does not bother me and forces me to SLOW down

john

Doremus Scudder · Dec 28, 2022

Composing images for maximum visual impact and for directing the eye and for creating senses of tension and repose has been around a lot longer than photography. Condensing composition into guidelines or rules is just a way to start understanding and getting a handle on the concepts and techniques. Painters have been learning rules of composition for centuries. The good ones go on to individualize and extend the impact of their compositions. Learning the rules of composition is like learning the rules of harmony; once mastered, you have a good jumping-off point for becoming an artist.

FWIW, composition and harmony are both based on how humans are hard-wired; our perception responds to certain arrangements more strongly than to others. Then there's education... but that's for another thread.

Best,

Doremus

albireo · Dec 28, 2022

Doremus Scudder said:
Composing images for maximum visual impact and for directing the eye and for creating senses of tension and repose has been around a lot longer than photography. Condensing composition into guidelines or rules is just a way to start understanding and getting a handle on the concepts and techniques. Painters have been learning rules of composition for centuries. The good ones go on to individualize and extend the impact of their compositions. Learning the rules of composition is like learning the rules of harmony; once mastered, you have a good jumping-off point for becoming an artist.

Beautifully put, thanks.

I think it was Charlie Parker who once said:

"Learn the changes, then forget them"

IMoL · Dec 29, 2022

MurrayMinchin said:
Also...anybody else have a warm eye and a somewhat cooler eye as far as colour temperature goes?

My theory is that in addition to stereo vision, it might give a subtle boost to 'seeing' the sculptural three dimensionality of things.

Yes! My (dominant) left eye is a bit cooler than my right eye.

I am also cross dominant (right hand, left eye) although I use my right eye for photography in recent years (in my profile pic I am still using my left eye!) due to some cloudiness in my left due to posterior vitreous detachment.

I must say I haven't noticed any compositional differences.

Eye dominance and ability to compose a photo

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