Extremely Desaturated Color Film?

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AutumnJazz

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I go into NYC every now and then, and I want some extremely desaturated color film to take some photos with a dystopian feel.

Any suggestions on film or processing?

I prefer slide film, but negatives are OK if there isn't anything in the positive flavor.

I shoot 35mm.

Thanks!
 

srs5694

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I've never tried it, but bleach-bypass processing might be what you want. If that's too extreme, you could try Ferrania film, which is a normal color film, but it's a little less saturated than most. In the US, Ferrania is sold mostly as various store brands. Freestyle's Arista color film is Ferrania, for instance.
 

2F/2F

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How will you be printing your photos? Or rather, what is your desired final product? If this is going to be digital in the end anyhow, well.....

Skip-bleach processing without second b/w development (AKA "ENR"), would work, but would also screw with your contrast very severely. ENR lets you control the severity of the effect, however.

Skip-bleach processing is also more archivally unstable without ENR and rebleaching. Even if I wanted 100% silver retention (and I never do), I would still use an ENR step to make the silver more stable. This also gives you the option of introducing other cool variations during ENR, such as stand processing, using hot developer, using vigorous agitation, etc., etc.

Have you ever tried processing C-41 films in E-6 chems? It's a nice look. It might give you what you want. It's much different than doing it the other way.

You can also experiment with extreme underdevelopment of the negs or transparencies. Of course, this will severely screw your color as well. You will have horrendous crossovers and low density, which you may or may not want. You can combat the low density (and reduce saturation) with a healthy amount of overexposure, but your color will be not only desaturated, but totally haywire.

You can also just try heavy overexposure. It would be a good way to lower saturation (and contrast), yet still keep somewhat normal color relationships. Personally, I might just rate my film four or five stops slower than it is, and print normally...That is if I wanted a somewhat normal look.

If I wanted it to be a bit more "off", but still not totally haywire, I would probably opt for neg. film, normal exposure, about 15-30 sec. underdevelopment, skip bleach and a partial b/w redevelopment (2 to 3 min? Depends on the effect you want. Less development means less neutral density added, and thus a more mild effect.) Then, I'd go ahead and perform the bleach step and proceed with the process as normal.

Another good trick is to leave your exposed film in a hot car. :D This is less predictable, however.
 
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nemo999

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I go into NYC every now and then, and I want some extremely desaturated color film to take some photos with a dystopian feel.

Any suggestions on film or processing?

I prefer slide film, but negatives are OK if there isn't anything in the positive flavor.

I shoot 35mm.

Thanks!

I like Ektachroime E200, which is really designed for push-processing and has relatively low contrast when exposed and processed for the box speed. I haven't tried pull processing, but I imagine this would reduce contrast still further. So would shooting with an uncoated or single-coated lens.
 
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if you want to de-saturate film try Nc-160 over expose and pull the development this reduced the saturation but also the contrast...
 

IloveTLRs

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Superia 100 is about as color-less as I've found. That's why I personally avoid it.
 

pentaxuser

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Superia 100 is about as color-less as I've found. That's why I personally avoid it.

Only my opinion of course but my experience with Superia 100 differs from yours considerably. Unless my experience is unique, I don't think the OP would see a desaturated effect at all with Superia 100.

I don't think I have ever contradicted another poster yet and this in not an attempt to start now but I'd advise the OP not to expect very much desaturation, if any, by the simple expedient of switching to Superia 100, if my experience of it is anything to go by.

If I am alone in my experience then I'll stand corrected. Maybe others will comment on their experience with Fuji Superia 100

pentaxuser
 

thuggins

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Only my opinion of course but my experience with Superia 100 differs from yours considerably. Unless my experience is unique, I don't think the OP would see a desaturated effect at all with Superia 100.

I don't think I have ever contradicted another poster yet and this in not an attempt to start now but I'd advise the OP not to expect very much desaturation, if any, by the simple expedient of switching to Superia 100, if my experience of it is anything to go by.

If I am alone in my experience then I'll stand corrected. Maybe others will comment on their experience with Fuji Superia 100

pentaxuser


Hey Pentax, you are correct. It's hard to imagine Superia 100 being desaturated. Superia is a very saturated film, although with Fuji's cold color pallet. I have read that Fuji has stated their goal was to create a print film that approached the appearance of Velvia.

For color slide film, I have found Astia/Sensia to be the least saturated among Fuji's offering. Although Provia 400 pushed two stops came out very nice - good, subdued colors and a little warmer than usual. For Kodak, E100G has the softest colors from what I've used. Their website does show that E200 is even less saturated.

Of course, one of the great strengths of slide film is saturation. So a "desaturated slide film" may be a contradiction.
 

jd callow

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Fuji Superia Reala is low contrast, but saturated IMHO. It is a great general purpose film and good for mixed light and at night. I rate it at 50 and it may be different at 100.

I don't find 160nc as being desaturated, but neutral -- I've never pulled it though. The long gone 50 iso film: Konica impressa (?) was desaturated. The old fast Kodak films were low in saturation when pulled. The new Porta 800 is kind of like that, but the film seems to be really agile and seems to manage pulling well -- meaning it still succeeds at rendering the scene with a good deal of accuracy when pulled.

The days of niche films like Agfa Ultra, Ektar 25, 1000pro, and on and on seem to be all gone. I suspect that our numbers are no longer strong enough to support these films. It didn't help that the internet is full of knobs who didn't understand that these films were for specific uses and would therefore bitch to no end that the film didn't suit their every need. (sorry for the rant)
 
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2F/2F

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"Superia 100 is about as color-less (sic) as I've found. That's why I personally avoid it."

You must not have tried Superia 200, 400, 800, or 1600, Pro 160S, Pro 400H, or Pro 800Z in that case. In my experience, Superia 100 is not far off from Pro 160C in terms of saturation, making it the second most colorful Fujicolor available.

"Fuji Superia Reala is low contrast"

Not as low contrast as Fuji Pro 160S, Pro 400H, Pro 800Z, Superia 200, 400, 800, or 1600. In my experience, it is about equal to Pro 160C in terms of contrast, but has much more realistic color. In my experience, any one of the following: Pro 160C, Superia 100, Superia Reala, are close enough in contrast that you could describe any one of them as the first, second, or third most contrasty Fujifilm available and you still might be correct.
 
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jd callow

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"Fuji Superia Reala is low contrast"

Not as low contrast as Fuji Pro 160S, Pro 400H, Pro 800Z, Superia 200, 400, 800, or 1600. In my experience, it is about equal to Pro 160C in terms of contrast, but has much more realistic color. In my experience, any one of the following: Pro 160C, Superia 100, Superia Reala, are close enough in contrast that you could describe any one of them as the first, second, or third most contrasty Fujifilm available and you still might be correct.

I'd say anecdotally, that Superia Reala is closer to 160s in contrast and 160c in saturation. I've never done a one to one comparison so If you have I'd differ. I don't shoot these films at box speed (1/2 box speed for all) so my contrast is going to be different than those who do. Reala does a good job of not blocking up as it builds shadow detail were 160c will block up much sooner (NPC, 160c's precursor, was even faster to block up and really benefited from pulling).
 

Michael W

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Interesting topic. I like desaturated colour & it's something I'm always planning to do something about.
The only E6 film I can think of that might give you a suitable look out of the box is Agfachrome 1,000. Discontinued but seems to be not so hard to get. It is very grainy, but definitely desaturated.

I've also seen good results from overexposing colour neg by a couple of stops or more. A corresponding pull will make the printing easier.

I also saw interesting results once from someone who had cross processed Reala to a positive & then made prints. Not sure what the exposure & pull/push details were but the colour was extremely muted.
 

2F/2F

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I can understand why that in your experience and with an untested half rating of the film, Reala might appear to hold more easily printable material in the highlights than Pro 160C. I do think that Reala and 160C have differently-shaped S curves, with Reala having a smoother shoulder, but I would say that actual total contrast range is about the same, based on printing test negs on the same paper. Tonal transitions were different, but actual paper black and paper white points were very similar.

Also I think from my own experience that this is only made more apparent as a result of the color response and saturation of the 160C. Due to its more "realistic" color and saturation, Reala loses more saturation than 160C in the more highly-toned areas of the neg. This makes these areas appear less bright even when they may technically be just as bright. It also makes them easier to burn cleanly without color casts or some muddiness. However, if you were to measure something like a contrast index, they would be very similar (as would Superia 100). I honestly find the largest difference between these three films to be the color, not the contrast. All are radically different in color response.

But, the point I was after is not really whether Reala or Pro 160C are more contrasty. The issue is whether or not "Fuji Superia Reala is low contrast", as you posted above. Reala is notably lower in contrast for you. However, I would still not say "Fuji Superia Reala is low contrast", given that it is still one of the more contrasty films made by Fuji. (I would say that it is one of the top three most contrasty Fujicolor emulsions.)

The really low-contrast films are Superia 800 and 1600 in my experience. I would call Superia 400, Pro 400H and Pro 800Z medium contrast, and Superia 100 and 200, Reala, and Pro160C high contrast. I might call Pro 160S on the borderline between low and medium contrast. Superia 800 and 1600 seem much lower contrast than it does.

I don't use Pro 160C for much, as I all around prefer Reala. When I want that 160C look, I print Reala on Ultra Endura paper instead of shooting 160C. I may start using 160C more for certain things, though, as Ultra paper is gone. Reala printed on Ultra paper is similar in color, but more contrasty than Pro 160C printed on Supra paper. Pro 160C on Ultra paper is pretty nuts!

One thing that I know for sure is that the little contrast and saturation comparison on the back of Fuji Pro film boxes is pretty well bunk. There is no way that Pro 800Z is just as contrasty as 160C.

Also, I believe there have been several people recommending to pull color neg. film. I do this myself, and fairly often. However, I tested first to find the "point of no return", shall we say. There is relatively little underdevelopment that you can do with color neg. before you have a crossover. I discovered, after many stupid tests, that I have fairly-easily-correctable shifts by taking about max. 20 sec off of the 3:15 development time (that is about 10%). I have difficult-to-correct shifts that are maybe just a hair off from being *truly* correctable, but close enough for gov't work, down to about 2:40 (about 20% off of 3:15). You can *highly* underdevelop transparency film, about as much as b/w. Not so with color neg., so be careful of what you are after before you decide to cut, for example, 30 or 40 percent development, like you might decide to do with a b/w or a transparency film.

And I am sure that Kodak highly discourages doing anything like this....well, Phtbbbbbt! :D Try it! It's great fun. This is really a tool worth extensive experimenting for, IMO.
 
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jd callow

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Excellent post. I don't shoot fuji's faster films so I can't comment. What little I have shot turned me off as I'm not a big fan of fuji's colour palette (Reala, and 160s being the exceptions). I tend to test films for what they can do, not how they compare to others and I ignore response curves and simply reference my applications. I see your opinion as being far better to follow then mine with regard to which films will respond in which manner. Like you I also pull film sto to find their breaking point, but I tend to embrace some crossover and the inability to get good blacks or clean whites. I think failure (not necessarily gross failure) as it is pushed, like grain, contrast and colour palette, are one of the unique inputs that film has to offer.
 

nsouto

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Astia used to be low contrast but is not very de-saturated in colour. I use it a lot for outdoors and it does a splendid job with vibrant colours if exposed spot on the 100 ISO or -1/3. This is Astia in 120 size:
Dead Link Removed (click on image for larger)

One film I've found that does not saturate colours at all in daylight is Superia 1600. Not always found everywhere, has quite visible grain. But in daylight you don't get sat colours at all and in low, warm artificial light it holds itself rather well.
This
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/Russel house.jpg
and
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nsouto/photos/tibet03.jpg
were taken in daylight: first one midday, second at dusk.
 

2F/2F

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"Kodachrome 64 seems to be less saturated than most C-41 films"

Well, the earth also seems to be flat.
 
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