extreamly gray prints. Need help!!

rberry65 · May 13, 2010

Here's the deal. I am a student who fell in love with the darkroom process. I decided to build a darkroom at home. My husband built me a 16x22 building and just finished it a few days ago. I've began printing but can not turn out a good image. They are seriously gray. I think part of the problem may be that I am used to printing in the darkroom provided by the school. Being I am the instructors assistant, and I mix the chimicals, I really do not think my trouble stems from improprely mixed chimicals. Here are the steps I have taken to try to improve the contrast. I have tryed increasing the dektol.... no luck! I have tried useing multigrade filters......still no luck. I thought mabye I had to much light and was fogging my paper, but I tested a piece by developing half of it with no image printed on it and it was a nice crisp white, so that's not the problem. I even got a negative that I know to be super contrasty and it printed gray. What am I doing wrong? :confused:

Kirk Keyes · May 13, 2010

It sounds like you've thought of the obvious things to think about. Can you post an scan or photo of one of your prints for use to examine?

Ian Grant · May 13, 2010

Are the edges white, is your safelight safe, is the enlarger lens ok, is there a light leak on tghe enlarger, have you made prints off the negatives before ?

A lot of questions but we need more clues

Ian

Darkroom317 · May 13, 2010

What paper are you using and is it new?

Mainecoonmaniac · May 13, 2010

Since it's a totally new darkroom, maybe check for ambient light that could fog photographic paper.

DWThomas · May 13, 2010

Presumably you're using a different enlarger at home. Could you be over exposing on the enlarger and attempting to compensate by pulling the print out of the developer too soon? I have learned the hard way that can make dull and often muddy results. It's good to get the enlarging exposure set where you can really develop out to solid dark values without messing up the lighter tones.

That's my only guess that's not been mentioned yet.

Darkroom317 · May 13, 2010

I had the same exact problem a couple of weeks ago. The first time printing in my darkroom instead of the one at the college. I also hadn't done any printing in 6 months. One does have to get used to a different enlarger and environment.

TSSPro · May 13, 2010

Dude- Total bummer. Sorry to hear about the troubles. It seems like you have hit up all the usual suspects. I've heard of really bright safelights can fog high-silver paper, but thats just hand-me-down knowledge from an old prof. It wouldnt be a bad idea to check the safelight anyway like Ian suggested.
And in a new darkroom, I would be warry of light leaks, but you already knew that.

I hope that you find the culprit!

Worker 11811 · May 13, 2010

Try making a photogram as a test.

Just put a sheet of paper on the easel and arrange a few objects on the paper. Coins, etc.
Expose with full-open aperture for a good 15-20 seconds. Develop normally.
You should get 100% black and 100% white with nothing in between except where the edges of your objects made shadows.

If it comes out right, you know your paper and chemistry are okay.

Next, print a negative that you have printed before and that you KNOW is all right. Use the same batch of paper and chemistry used for the previous test. If that comes out wrong, you know the problem is in the enlarger. If it comes out right then you know the problem is in the other negative you were trying to print.

rberry65 · May 13, 2010

Ok here is the image. I do a lot of combination printing. In this image, I used 3 different negatives. To answer some of your questions, Yes Ian, the edges are white, so I do not think it is a fogging issue, and yes, I have made prints from the negatives before with no problem. In my photo album, the image titled Free Spirit have 2 of the very same negatives and it printed fine. Darkroom 317, the paper is new, it is a cheap paper (Arista multigrade rc) I use for testin to make sure I am getting the image I am looking for before I put it on my good fiber paper Foma, but I thought that it might just be the paper and tryed it on the Foma and got the same results. DwThomas, actually two of my enlargers are the same as the ones am familiar with. One is a Besseler the other a zone6. My third enlarger I am not familar wirh. It is a Durst. I will post an album on my profileof my darkroom and enlargers for you to look at, mabye you can make suggestions based on that.

rberry65 · May 13, 2010

Now why didn't I think of doing a photogram. Great suggestion worker 11811.

fotch · May 13, 2010

Eliminate the enlarger, make a contact print. If this doesn't come out, do the proper test, as specified by Kodak, on your safe lights.

Darkroom317 · May 13, 2010

Which university are you at?

R gould · May 13, 2010

May seem a silly question but how close is your safelight to the processing area? a 15 watt safelight mustbe at least a meter away from the paper, I had one closer and it fogged my paper, it certainly looks to me as if your paper is being fogged in some way, The only other thing I can suggest is that you are under exposing the paper,That would give the result you are getting, or possibly try increasing the contrast,using a higher multigrade filter Richard

DWThomas · May 13, 2010

(Grasping at straws here!)

Is the enlarger clean internally - lens, condenser/diffuser -- a layer of grease or dust in the wrong place could kill contrast.

I'm not 100% sure how you're doing the composites -- separate exposures or stacked negatives, but I would probably drop back to working with a single negative of known past results until I figured out what was amiss.

darinwc · May 13, 2010

Have you done any test strips?

Use a developed blank sheet of film and do some zone system testing.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 13, 2010

Important question: Is your chemistry at a proper temperature? (Follow the Dektol directions at http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e103cp/e103cp.pdf )

If yes - the safelight question above is very valid. The edges of the paper may still be crisp because the safelight isn't 'unsafe enough' to fog by itself. But with the enlarger having illuminated the picture prior to the safelight exposure, you could have enough exposure on the paper where an unsafe safelight could make a difference.

- Thomas

rberry65 · May 13, 2010

Darkroom317, I attend Henderson Satae University in Arkadelphia Arkansas

JBrunner · May 13, 2010

The one thing I don't see in the scanned print is anything black. If it was me with the new set up, I'd figure out the exposure for black through B+F and work backwards. You may just be underexposing for the new set up. Also, paper can be being fogged by safelight and not show if it hasn't got some exposure. Try slightly pre-flashing some paper, and then run a safelight photogram.

CBG · May 13, 2010

Keep it as simple as possible when trying to diagnose issues. You need to eliminate variables and "possibles". Just print one negative, not a combination print. Produce one print in the dark to eliminate safelight fogging ... and so on. That will tell you if your paper is old and fogged. Can your developer produce a pure deep black in the regular couple of minutes? I'm wondering about the safelight, the paper and the chemicals. You can test each of them simply and easily. If you only get gray results when the safelight is on, it would be suspect. If you get gray borders when you work in the dark, the paper is suspect. If you can't get a pure black with normal development, the developer may be at issue.

David William White · May 13, 2010

I'd like to see you do stepped test strips with different filters, say one for g1, g3 and g5. Forgive me, but I suspect you don't do them. Apologies if you do, and if you can't see the time and filtration you like, then given all else you've checked, there is something terribly wrong with your enlarger lamp.

rberry65 · May 13, 2010

Yep! Had a massive light leak on one of my enlargers. I never even thought of that untill Ian suggested I check it. No, I usually don't do test strips, but thats because I was very used to the conditions in the darkroom at the university. I totally forgot about it actually, so that is an exelant suggestion

David William White · May 13, 2010

Good to hear you're all fixed up. Test strips are foundational -- you really can't print without them. And on tricky negatives like the one you showed, if you do a test strip with different filters you will discover endless possibilities. Good luck!

extreamly gray prints. Need help!!

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