Exposure times for 4x5?

M. Axel Wikstrom · Mar 24, 2017

To the OP's original question, if there were a difference between formats then there would be separate exposure meters designed for each format. Obviously there are not, so logic would indicate that exposure is the same.

Lens shutter tolerances can vary by quite a bit however, so before using an unproven lens it's wise to test it at all shutter speeds and apertures.

BetterSense · Mar 24, 2017

"Exposure is exposure. The laws of physics are the same. That is why we have standard f/stops and film ISOs."

This is 100% correct on a technical level, yet, I have seen many photographers who for some reason prefer to expose larger formats more. Maybe it's flare; maybe they simply value the negative density and prefer a denser negative when grain isn't an issue; maybe they expose more because the cameras are often manual and without sophisticated meters, so exposing more provides a safety factor they don't need on 35mm; maybe large format photographers are more educated in the zone system and understand that exposure is a tool not a rule, which results in more exposure for the shadow detail they want; maybe it's because the cameras are always on a tripod so they aren't worried about camera shake. All I know is that I have heard many say that larger formats need more exposure, and there's probably something to it.

zilch0md · Mar 24, 2017

f/64 and be there...

BetterSense said:
"Exposure is exposure. The laws of physics are the same. That is why we have standard f/stops and film ISOs."

This is 100% correct on a technical level, yet, I have seen many photographers who for some reason prefer to expose larger formats more. Maybe it's flare; maybe they simply value the negative density and prefer a denser negative when grain isn't an issue; maybe they expose more because the cameras are often manual and without sophisticated meters, so exposing more provides a safety factor they don't need on 35mm; maybe large format photographers are more educated in the zone system and understand that exposure is a tool not a rule, which results in more exposure for the shadow detail they want; maybe it's because the cameras are always on a tripod so they aren't worried about camera shake. All I know is that I have heard many say that larger formats need more exposure, and there's probably something to it.

You are expressing the same curiosity as that expressed by the OP.

kcham16 said:
(snip)
It just seems like I need to expose longer, but maybe I'm just incorrect.
(snip)
The reason I ask is that if I compensate 1 stop on my hasselblad 6x6 over my 35mm, I get great results. Wondering if the same is true, or even to a greater extent for large format...
(snip)

To your list of ponderings, I have to add, maybe the "great results" had by the OP, when he "compensates 1 stop" on his Hasselblad 6x6, have something to do with securing equivalent DoF.

Maybe... that explains why he finds himself making longer exposures with 6x6 format than with 35mm format and....

Maybe... that's why he's wondering if he won't have to make longer exposures "even to a greater extent for large format..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_f/64

BetterSense · Mar 24, 2017

Another factor is that I enlarge 35mm typically 5-8X, while I enlarge 4x5 typically 1-2X. This means exposure times on my enlarger are intrinsically about 16 times shorter than they are for 35mm. That means a denser 4x5 negative is actually more convenient to print, while denser 35mm negatives are less convenient to print because times get too long.

darkroommike · Mar 24, 2017

Practically speaking you will be using longer shutter speeds since shorter shutter speeds are not available on large format lenses.
Practically speaking you will be using smaller apertures since large format lenses will not have larger apertures available.
DOF available for any given aperture will be shallower for a longer focal length.

wiltw · Mar 24, 2017

Leight B said:
While that may be true, it's not relevant to the OP's question.

Leigh B (and zilch0md), there is no right and no wrong in the 'argument', merely difference in points of view.

Leigh, while you are totally correct about 'no DOF consideration' expressed in OP, I do have to side with zilch0md in bringing up the discussion.

When someone is new to a format (like OP) or new to a photographic 'application', there are tons of considerations in that new format which are apropos to point out, in case the 'newkid' has not thought about that. So OP said he was new to LF, and asked one question (exposure), and in that context 'exposure' is 'the same' regardless of format. That he had experienced 6x6 and used a smaller f/stop IMPLIED that he had discovered the DOF consideration how a 1-2EV difference in aperture could restore DOF to 'the same'...so discussion of 4x5 and DOF seems (to me, as well as zilch0md) to be a reasonable thing to do in light of the thread author's lack of experience in the new format.

IMHO we need not adhere RIGIDLY to the topic expressed 'Exposure times for 4x5l', but we should consider the spirit if its author's context...where almost everthing is new until the sameness is experienced. Pour yourself a beer and enjoy your time in the forum!

Kawaiithulhu · Mar 24, 2017

The only adjustment you'll have to consider as compared to smaller formats is that close focusing isn't automatically compensated for like with many/most medium and small format cameras in the near-focus and macro range.

So if you're doing still lifes or head shots you'll have to work with the meter and tables to get a proper exposure.

Not such a big deal, but easy to forget to compensate, and the cause of many of my early and thin negatives

Leigh B · Mar 24, 2017

wiltw said:
That he had experienced 6x6 and used a smaller f/stop IMPLIED that he had discovered the DOF consideration how a 1-2EV difference in aperture could restore DOF to 'the same'

Completely invalid assumption on your part.

35mm lenses of relatively "normal" focal length are generally faster than f/2.
"Normal" lenses on MF are generally f/2.8 at best, or f/4.

His change in shutter could be explained completely by the different optics on the cameras.

For 4x5 the "normal" lenses are generally f/5.6, requiring a further reduction of shutter speed.

He never mentioned DoF. Your assumptions don't change that.

- Leigh

MattKing · Mar 24, 2017

One further possibility.
Large format shooters are much more likely to use Zone System methodology, including the parts thereof related to determining your own EI.
Those who use smaller formats are much more likely to use ISO (box) speeds.
The Zone System criteria for determining EI has a built in 2/3 of a stop difference from the ISO criteria - a 400 ISO film will generally yield a 250 EI when that film is evaluated using Zone System criteria.
So anyone metering with Zone System EI settings will need a (slightly) longer exposure time than those using box speed.
Q.E.D.

Leigh B · Mar 24, 2017

Hi Matt,

While you're certainly correct regarding personal film speed, that does not relate to the OP's question.

He's asking if different formats of the same film have different speeds.
A personal speed will be uniform across all formats, just like a box speed is.

- Leigh

zilch0md · Mar 25, 2017

Leigh B,

None of kcham16's posts to this thread make any reference to DoF or "personal" film speed or "format" film speed. Surprise! His question leaves lots of room for speculation, thus, we are ALL making assumptions. That's perfectly OK, for the sake of discussion, thus, considering the ambiguity of the OP's question, I welcome your assumptions and those of everyone else.

Mike

Leigh B · Mar 25, 2017

zilch0md said:
Leigh B,
None of kcham16's posts to this thread make any reference to DoF or "personal" film speed or "format" film speed.

Mike,

He most certainly did.
His original question was:

kcham16 said:
Do I need to have longer exposure times for large format, or go with larger apertures?

The pairing of "longer exposure times" with "larger apertures" indicates he thinks the exposure index is less for large format film, thus requiring compensation of some sort.

That's the error I and others are trying to correct.

- Leigh

Sirius Glass · Mar 25, 2017

I am not trying to correct! I corrected it. See what Yoda said about trying ==>

John Koehrer · Mar 25, 2017

kcham16 said:
I am not referring to bellows compensation, which makes sense to me. I am just wondering if the exposure times/ f-stops are the same as medium format and 35mm?

The reason I ask is that if I compensate 1 stop on my hasselblad 6x6 over my 35mm, I get great results. Wondering if the same is true, or even to a greater extent for large format...

Two observations:
In the meter reading is the same for any format. Say 1/30@f11on the meter gives a 1/30@f11 setting.
If he prefers to compensate 1 stop, that's very subjective. But! He prefers that compensation.
He may not prefer it in a larger format, but then again it's Subjective isn't it?

Drew Bedo · Mar 29, 2017

T-Max 100 in 4x5 sheets responds just like t-Max does in medium format or 35mm. All the exposure decisions regarding aperture and shutter speed versus the light available and depth of field for com;positions at or near infinity are the same regardless. For subjects substantially closer than infinity there is a correction for bellows extension. That is really the only LF specific new thing to learn.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 30, 2017

kcham16 said:
Hi- I'm new to large format, having used medium format and 35mm for quite some time. I am wondering if anyone can help me- Do I need to have longer exposure times for large format, or go with larger apertures? If I use a handheld light meter, do I need to do any adjustments?
It just seems like I need to expose longer, but maybe I'm just incorrect.

I am not referring to bellows compensation, which makes sense to me. I am just wondering if the exposure times/ f-stops are the same as medium format and 35mm?

The reason I ask is that if I compensate 1 stop on my hasselblad 6x6 over my 35mm, I get great results. Wondering if the same is true, or even to a greater extent for large format...

Thank you all in advance- this is a rad community.

expose is the product of light intensity(controlled by aperture and time(controlled by the shutter) H=E*t and hence,independent of film format but this assumes infinity focus and an exposure correction is usually required at subjectmagnifications greater than 1/10.

Exposure times for 4x5?

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