Exposure calculation - Nikon FG's meter not working

Daniela · Aug 14, 2024

Hi everyone!

So, my beloved Nikon FG's frame counter suddenly stopped working the other day as I was shooting (went back to S and got stuck there). In case you don't know, the exposure meter doesn't work until the counter is at 1, and since advancing the film doesn't move the meter, I decided to go with the Sunny 16 rule. I had APX 400 in the camera, so I shot at 1/500 and the resulting pictures are overexposed (I still think they'll be workable in the darkroom, thankfully). *Edited because I mixed different things* If I were to then use 1/1000, I'd be probably underexposing, right? The same would happen if I closed down to f11...

Another option: I read in the manual that using the setting M90 is ideal when batteries run out/there's no working light meter. So, if I were to shoot at 1/90, then I'd be overexposing too because the smallest aperture I have is f22.

What would you do short of not using the camera until it gets fixed? Btw, I'll take the camera to a professional in September. I read online that cleaning a little groove where apparently the frame counter reset is located could help. I inserted a toothpick and the counter moved a little, but it's still stuck). Thanks!

Chan Tran · Aug 14, 2024

Are your pictures overexposed or underexposed? It's kind of impossible to shoot at f/16, 1/500 and ISO400 and overexpose your film The light doesn't get brighter than that.

Daniela · Aug 14, 2024

Chan Tran said:
Are your pictures overexposed or underexposed? It's kind of impossible to shoot at f/16, 1/500 and ISO400 and overexpose your film The light doesn't get brighter than that.

Overexposed. If I compare them to other negatives the overexposure can be perceived very well. I still think they'll be printable, though.

Chan Tran · Aug 14, 2024

Daniela said:
Overexposed. If I compare them to other negatives the overexposure can be perceived very well. I still think they'll be printable, though.

You meant your negative too dense? and your print too light? It's hard to believe and if so using 1/250 would make it even worse.

Daniela · Aug 14, 2024

Chan Tran said:
You meant your negative too dense? and your print too light? It's hard to believe and if so using 1/250 would make it even worse.

Yes, the negatives are too dense. I see what you're saying about 1/250 making it worse considering the density...I was thinking that if the true iso for this film is actually closer to 250, then 1/250 would make sense following the sunny 16 rule, but I see how that doesn't make any sense I've edited the original post. I guess the options would remain to potentially continue to over- or underexpose the film until I can get the camera fixed.

Ian C · Aug 14, 2024

Suppose you are using ASA 400 film and are limited to a shutter speed of 1/90 second.

If you use the sunny 16 rule in full sunlight with ASA 400 film, the indication is to shoot at 1/400 second at f/16, an exposure time that is not available with most shutters.

1/90 second is 2.15 stops more exposure than 1/400 second. So, exposing ASA 400 film at 1/90 second at f/16 overexposes the film by 2.15 stops.

An ND 0.6 neutral density filter holds back 2 stops of light which is close to the required correction at f/16.

If you used a 3-stop ND 0.9 filter, you’d get correct exposure at f/11 at 1/90 second.

A 4-stop ND 1.2 filter would allow correct exposure at f/8.

Using ASA 400 film at a constant 1/90 second shutter time and using a 2-stop ND 0.6 filter,
based on the Sunny 16 rule, you can state the full range of characteristic lighting as:

Bright or hazy sun on light sand or snow f/16

Bright or hazy sun (distinct shadows) f/11—use f/5.6 for backlit close-up subjects

Weak, hazy sun (soft shadows) f/8

Cloudy bright (no shadows) f/5.6

Heavy overcast/open shade f/4—subject shaded from the sun but lighted by a large area of clear sky

FotoD · Aug 14, 2024

Isn't there a tab at the top of the door that tells the camera to reset the counter when you open it? Sounds like it could be the problem. Maybe do some more cleaning and exercise whatever the tabs is pushing on?

The lock that shuts off the meter can be bypassed, but it's probably just as "easy" to fix the counter problem.

Good luck!

Chan Tran · Aug 14, 2024

OK check and see if the 125 and 90 LED blink? If so the shutter speed is 1/90 and even in manual mode you can't have 1/500 because you're not yet frame 1.

Daniela · Aug 14, 2024

Ian C said:
Suppose you are using ASA 400 film and are limited to a shutter speed of 1/90 second.

If you use the sunny 16 rule in full sunlight with ASA 400 film, the indication is to shoot at 1/400 second at f/16, an exposure time that is not available with most shutters.

1/90 second is 2.15 stops more exposure than 1/400 second. So, exposing ASA 400 film at 1/90 second at f/16 overexposes the film by 2.15 stops.

An ND 0.6 neutral density filter holds back 2 stops of light which is close to the required correction at f/16.

If you used a 3-stop ND 0.9 filter, you’d get correct exposure at f/11 at 1/90 second.

A 4-stop ND 1.2 filter would allow correct exposure at f/8.

Thank you! This is super helpful!

Daniela · Aug 14, 2024

FotoD said:
Isn't there a tab at the top of the door that tells the camera to reset the counter when you open it? Sounds like it could be the problem. Maybe do some more cleaning and exercise whatever the tabs is pushing on?

The lock that shuts off the meter can be bypassed, but it's probably just as "easy" to fix the counter problem.

Good luck!

I have found that tab and gently pushed it in/out to no avail. However, I just saw tried firing/advancing as I kept it pushed in and the frame counter did move back to 36 (and remains there). The good news is that now the metering works, but I don't know how good it is that the wheel turned backwards instead of towards the S...

Daniela · Aug 14, 2024

Chan Tran said:
OK check and see if the 125 and 90 LED blink? If so the shutter speed is 1/90 and even in manual mode you can't have 1/500 because you're not yet frame 1.

the 125 and 60 LED did indeed blink when the problem first appeared. When I decided to shoot following sunny 16, I stopped paying attention to the LEDs so I don't remember if they were flashing or not...but there you go, now the overexposure makes sense.

I just now was able to make the frame counter go back to 36, so now the metering is back on. Who knows how long it'll stay there. I'll stop messing with it before I fully break it

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 18, 2024

Unfortunately, it may be time to look for another camera body if a repair is not cost effective.

Pieter12 · Aug 18, 2024

Are you shooting color or black and white? Do you process your own film? If black and white, a yellow filter usually improves most shots and takes away 1 stop. Plus you could rate the film at a lower ISO and process accordingly. Also, I would check to make sure the lens is actually stopping down all the way when you fire the shutter. Set at 1 second, B or T with no film in the camera, open the back and trip the shutter.

MFstooges · Aug 18, 2024

My beat up FM has this issue that is now intermittent. It acts up but stops every time I plan to send it to technician.i just need to open up the top and clean the mechanism under the wind lever but I'm lazy to do it myself especially since the rewind crank lever sleeve is.made from plastic and is brittle at this age. Fortunately the meter is not coupled with film counter.
If you're handy with screwdriver you probably can fix it

RalphLambrecht · Aug 18, 2024

Daniela said:
Hi everyone!

So, my beloved Nikon FG's frame counter suddenly stopped working the other day as I was shooting (went back to S and got stuck there). In case you don't know, the exposure meter doesn't work until the counter is at 1, and since advancing the film doesn't move the meter, I decided to go with the Sunny 16 rule. I had APX 400 in the camera, so I shot at 1/500 and the resulting pictures are overexposed (I still think they'll be workable in the darkroom, thankfully). *Edited because I mixed different things* If I were to then use 1/1000, I'd be probably underexposing, right? The same would happen if I closed down to f11...

Another option: I read in the manual that using the setting M90 is ideal when batteries run out/there's no working light meter. So, if I were to shoot at 1/90, then I'd be overexposing too because the smallest aperture I have is f22.

What would you do short of not using the camera until it gets fixed? Btw, I'll take the camera to a professional in September. I read online that cleaning a little groove where apparently the frame counter reset is located could help. I inserted a toothpick and the counter moved a little, but it's still stuck). Thanks!

if the negs are overexposed (too dense), then it would help if you exposed them less. Therefore, increase the shutter speed (1/1,000s), or close the aperture from f/16 to f/22. In any case, overexposure is better than underexposure for image quality, and the negatives will print in the darkroom but need more light and possibly a contrast correction. correction.

mshchem · Aug 19, 2024

I remember when I bought my brand new F3 (c. 1980?). The meter didn't activate until counter got to 1. Always drove me crazy.

FG was really popular maybe start looking for another one. Until then sunny 16, open up 4 stops in open shade, indoors 30th at f2 with 400 speed.

MFstooges · Aug 19, 2024

mshchem said:
I remember when I bought my brand new F3 (c. 1980?). The meter didn't activate until counter got to 1. Always drove me crazy.

FG was really popular maybe start looking for another one. Until then sunny 16, open up 4 stops in open shade, indoors 30th at f2 with 400 speed.

The purpose is to avoid the shutter gets stuck on long exposure if user accidentally leaves the camera on auto and lens cover on.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 19, 2024

RalphLambrecht said:
if the negs are overexposed (too dense), then it would help if you exposed them less. Therefore, increase the shutter speed (1/1,000s), or close the aperture from f/16 to f/22. In any case, overexposure is better than underexposure for image quality, and the negatives will print in the darkroom but need more light and possibly a contrast correction. correction.

The problem is that the shutter is stuck on default speed of 1/90th a second.
Either a repair or a new camera is required.

Daniela · Aug 19, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Are you shooting color or black and white? Do you process your own film? If black and white, a yellow filter usually improves most shots and takes away 1 stop. Plus you could rate the film at a lower ISO and process accordingly. Also, I would check to make sure the lens is actually stopping down all the way when you fire the shutter. Set at 1 second, B or T with no film in the camera, open the back and trip the shutter.

Shooting b&w, I do process my own film and use a yellow filter...just checked and everything seems to be in working order. Had not considered pulling. Thanks!

MFstooges said:
If you're handy with screwdriver...

Only for Ikea furniture, unfortunately!

RalphLambrecht said:
if the negs are overexposed (too dense), then it would help if you exposed them less. Therefore, increase the shutter speed (1/1,000s), or close the aperture from f/16 to f/22. In any case, overexposure is better than underexposure for image quality, and the negatives will print in the darkroom but need more light and possibly a contrast correction. correction.

Will try increasing the speed now that the metering is working again.

Keith Tapscott. said:
The problem is that the shutter is stuck on default speed of 1/90th a second.
Either a repair or a new camera is required.

Well, for now, I've managed to get the frame counter dial to a number, so I'm able to set the speed again

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 20, 2024

Daniela said:
Well, for now, I've managed to get the frame counter dial to a number, so I'm able to set the speed again

That's good news.

Exposure calculation - Nikon FG's meter not working

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