Expired film

Isaiah Dominguez · Jul 12, 2021

Hey guys I have a couple roles of kodak gold 200 expired 2003 any suggestions on how to shoot it. Never shot expired film before

Bronson Dugnutt · Jul 12, 2021

It depends on storage, but one might expect loss of speed (particularly in the shadows), color shifts, and dense negatives from base fog. Maybe overexpose a bit, but expect defects.

This shot was from a roll of film (400 speed kodak) already loaded in a camera I had purchased and developed in standard c-41 chemistry.

Isaiah Dominguez · Jul 13, 2021

Nice shots still what stop do you recommend to shoot it at? Box speed just over exposed ?

zanxion72 · Jul 13, 2021

I would rate it half stop slower and meter for the shadows. being an ASA 200 film, it has better chances for something nice than the 400 one.

Isaiah Dominguez · Jul 13, 2021

zanxion72 said:
I would rate it half stop slower and meter for the shadows. being an ASA 200 film, it has better chances for something nice than the 400 one.

So at iso 100 ? I'm new to photography btw lol

removedacct1 · Jul 13, 2021

Isaiah Dominguez said:
So at iso 100 ?

Correct.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jul 13, 2021

The frames I posted were exposed via a point & shoot camera, so it used the ISO encoded on the canister (400). I forget the specific filmstock but the expiration date was ca. '92 or so. Since you have more than one roll you can try a range of overexposures. It may be expired film has a harder time with high-contrast scenes.

ISO 100 is a good estimate.

Anaxagore · Jul 20, 2021

The rule of thumb that is often given for color negative films is -1 stop for 10 years past date. Meaning SpeedNow = BoxSpeed / (2^(YearsPastExpirationDate/10))
For 18 years, that gives about 57ASA. Round to 64 or 50. Faster films degrade faster than slower films, so if it were a 1000ASA box speed I’d use the lower rounding or even less (250 or 200 rather than 320 for the same 18 years of age), but for 200 the 64 should be a good start, with some bracketing around that number.

Isaiah Dominguez · Jul 20, 2021

Anaxagore said:
The rule of thumb that is often given for color negative films is -1 stop for 10 years past date. Meaning SpeedNow = BoxSpeed / (2^(YearsPastExpirationDate/10))
For 18 years, that gives about 57ASA. Round to 64 or 50. Faster films degrade faster than slower films, so if it were a 1000ASA box speed I’d use the lower rounding or even less (250 or 200 rather than 320 for the same 18 years of age), but for 200 the 64 should be a good start, with some bracketing around that number.

Yeah I was gonna drop iso to 100 should I also add adjust my light meter for an extra stop since it's almost 20 years old?

Anaxagore said:
The rule of thumb that is often given for color negative films is -1 stop for 10 years past date. Meaning SpeedNow = BoxSpeed / (2^(YearsPastExpirationDate/10))
For 18 years, that gives about 57ASA. Round to 64 or 50. Faster films degrade faster than slower films, so if it were a 1000ASA box speed I’d use the lower rounding or even less (250 or 200 rather than 320 for the same 18 years of age), but for 200 the 64 should be a good start, with some bracketing around that number.

BrianShaw · Jul 20, 2021

I know a lot of folks apply that rule of thumb. For 10 year old Gold I just shoot box speed and let the film’s latitude cover it. More often than not that works fine. I haven’t bothered testing old film for speed loss. 20 year old… I’d probably test first. I’m much more worried about color shifts than speed loss. But you have nothing to lose with increasing exposure. Kodak Gold is quite resilient.

p.s. I’m shooting 10 year old Gold in a 1970’s camera right now. I remember buying it but don’t know why it stayed in a drawer that long!

Anaxagore · Jul 20, 2021

Isaiah Dominguez said:
Yeah I was gonna drop iso to 100 should I also add adjust my light meter for an extra stop since it's almost 20 years old?

It’s a game of probability.

You may choose to shoot it all at ISO100/21° and find if you’re lucky. They may end all bad or all good.
If you shoot it all at ISO50/18°, given the overexposure tolerance of that film and the extra stop to take into account the age, you have a lower chance to get them all bad, but a higher chance of having blown-out highlights.
If you try various settings between these two (including both ends) for each picture you want to take, you will end up with a very high probability to get the right exposure for that film among the 4 frames for each picture, but also 4 times fewer different pictures on that roll. On the other hand, you will know which setting to use for that film the next time you shoot the same film that has been kept in the same conditions.

Unfortunately there has not been a scientific study running over decades to shoot and process each brand of film as it ages and develop curves and color correction profiles to adjust sensitivity and colors of film before and after expiration.

mohmad khatab · Jul 20, 2021

In my humble personal experience, the best way to develop these films is. You must set the ISO button to 64. I had the same 2003 production class.
- Stay away from indoor photography, the attached photo was filmed in this movie using artificial lighting and a black background with a macro lens.

Les Sarile · Jul 20, 2021

Can also depend on storage conditions.

This first one is Kodak Ektar 125 expired 4/1992 and shot/processed 9/2010. In original individual package and Was kept out on a covered driveway in very hot and humid Atlanta for unknown but many years. I setup my camera as an ISO32 and processed at box speed.

Kodak Ektar 125-1_03 by Les DMess, on Flickr

As normal as my fully automatic scans are of this, the mini lab scan colors are far from normal.

This next one was Kodak Royal Gold 25 expired 1/2000 and shot/processed 4/2018. Was refrigerated the whole time. I setup my camera as ISO25 and processed at box speed. Looks very normal.

Kodak Royal Gold 25 by Les DMess, on Flickr

BTW, with a minimal amount of post work, I can make +7 overexposed look very normal.

Huss · Jul 20, 2021

As Les has shown so, frankly, incredibly well, what is important is storage temp not age.

I'm shooting 20+ year old film at box speed and it has been fine. But it has been refrigerated/frozen its entire life.

Expired film

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