Expired film-usable?

Tim Stapp · Oct 24, 2022

I have two boxes of film that have been stored a few years in less that ideal conditions in a non-climate controlled storage unit.

Sub zero temps in winter and 90 plus in the summer.

One box of Ilford HP5+ expired August of 2018 and one box of Arista EDU Ultra 200 expired October 2017.

What are the chances of either being any good?

I have fresh film on hand, but hate to be wasteful. (I know, TEST).

I'm planning on using the fresh film this weekend, as we are spending the weekend on the Cheboygan Head Light (light house keeper's quarters, working on restoration of the light house.

awty · Oct 24, 2022

Tim Stapp said:
(I know, TEST).

Yes.
If it has been completely dry chances are its ok. but fresh is best.

Sirius Glass · Oct 24, 2022

Yes, but test some rolls first.

Tim Stapp · Oct 24, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Yes, but test some rolls first.

Thankfully, it's sheet film, so a couple shots from each should let me know.

Fresh for the weekend. I'm hoping to get some shots of the lighthouse that the normal tourist isn't able to get, due to access.

We are doing a restoration project. I anticipate that it will take one day, maybe two to complete. The new owners of the lighthouse that are doing the restoration found the original handrail and spindles in a closet. The 96 year old daughter of a former lighthouse keeper remembered where her father had stored them, years ago.

She was able to give them some long lost history of the place, from when she was a child living there.

removedacct1 · Oct 24, 2022

Stored for years exposed to 90+F summer temps, you can expect some serious fogging of either film.

Tim Stapp · Oct 24, 2022

paulbarden said:
Stored for years exposed to 90+F summer temps, you can expect some serious fogging of either film.

Hence, the reason for fresh film for the weekend

cmacd123 · Oct 24, 2022

if stored in an air conditions space, that stock I would expect to be useable with some fog, if in date but spending two summers in 32C temps I would expect some fog. the combo, would give even more fog. BUT may still be acceptable for many shots.

Cholentpot · Oct 24, 2022

2017 ain't old. I've got stuff from the 60's in my freezer. At least I think it is. When did DuPont stop making film?

Jay Schrotenboer · Oct 24, 2022

Tim Stapp said:
Thankfully, it's sheet film, so a couple shots from each should let me know.

Fresh for the weekend. I'm hoping to get some shots of the lighthouse that the normal tourist isn't able to get, due to access.

We are doing a restoration project. I anticipate that it will take one day, maybe two to complete. The new owners of the lighthouse that are doing the restoration found the original handrail and spindles in a closet. The 96 year old daughter of a former lighthouse keeper remembered where her father had stored them, years ago.

She was able to give them some long lost history of the place, from when she was a child living there.

Are you doing the front range light or the crib light? Either way I am so jealous right now!! Have fun and get some great photos!!

gone · Oct 24, 2022

I'd say your chances are somewhere between slim to none. Those storage units get insanely hot when they're closed up, unless yours has some sort of venting. But I've been wrong before (1967, I still remember it, nothing since then). Try a FEW frames and see.

Tim Stapp · Oct 24, 2022

Jay Schrotenboer said:
Are you doing the front range light or the crib light? Either way I am so jealous right now!! Have fun and get some great photos!!

The Cheboygan Head Light. Not sure if that's what you mean by "Crib Light." If interested, I'll get contact information.

With the same friend, spent a long three day weekend on the White Shoal Light, located in Lake Michigan, about 20 miles east of the straights. Fabulous weekend. Helped design the library for the level 5 or 6. Can't remember at this point.

I also got a few of the last photographs (digitally) of the Waugoscance Light, built during the Civil War before Lake Michigan began her last devestaing attacks on her. She was used as a target for WWII drone bombing attack practice, based in Milwaukee, WI. (yes, our military was experimenting with drones that far back).

My custom woodworker friend gets me into some very "interesting" problem solving projects. I really should document some of the results with photos. Usually, just extremely excited that they work out as they did in my head.

The man has a PHD in Industrial Education, but calls on me to figure out the complex stuff. I give him ideas, sometimes sketched, sometimes actually drawn and he puts it on the drafting table and then into finished work.

For a repurposed retired fire house, I designed and we built a set of bi fold doors for a 9x14 ft opening with no visible hardware. Architect and General Contractor said that it couldn't be done. My friend Steve said that I would figure something out.

I made a mock up, indicating that I would need to at least have a deadbolt lock. Unless, he was willing to spend an additional $5K to make it electronic. Homeowner decided that he could live with the visible deadbolt lock.

Drew Wiley, there were $800 worth of Soss hinges in the doors spanning a 9ft tall by 14ft opening. Everything (hinge mortises) had to be kept within 0.010" inch. I made bank on that job!

Jay Schrotenboer · Oct 25, 2022

Tim Stapp said:
The Cheboygan Head Light. Not sure if that's what you mean by "Crib Light." If interested, I'll get contact information.

With the same friend, spent a long three day weekend on the White Shoal Light, located in Lake Michigan, about 20 miles east of the straights. Fabulous weekend. Helped design the library for the level 5 or 6. Can't remember at this point.

I also got a few of the last photographs (digitally) of the Waugoscance Light, built during the Civil War before Lake Michigan began her last devestaing attacks on her. She was used as a target for WWII drone bombing attack practice, based in Milwaukee, WI. (yes, our military was experimenting with drones that far back).

My custom woodworker friend gets me into some very "interesting" problem solving projects. I really should document some of the results with photos. Usually, just extremely excited that they work out as they did in my head.

The man has a PHD in Industrial Education, but calls on me to figure out the complex stuff. I give him ideas, sometimes sketched, sometimes actually drawn and he puts it on the drafting table and then into finished work.

For a repurposed retired fire house, I designed and we built a set of bi fold doors for a 9x14 ft opening with no visible hardware. Architect and General Contractor said that it couldn't be done. My friend Steve said that I would figure something out.

I made a mock up, indicating that I would need to at least have a deadbolt lock. Unless, he was willing to spend an additional $5K to make it electronic. Homeowner decided that he could live with the visible deadbolt lock.

Drew Wiley, there were $800 worth of Soss hinges in the doors spanning a 9ft tall by 14ft opening. Everything (hinge mortises) had to be kept within 0.010" inch. I made bank on that job!

I am not actually that familiar with the lighthouse other than some information I have read online. Last year when I got my 4x5 camera and made myself a darkroom I decided I wanted to try and photograph all of Michigan’s remaining lights, no small task. The idea of getting involved with people that regularly do work on them would be helpful to my goals, but I fear I would get in the way with my lack of experience and skills in that field. If you ever need a warm body that comes with a few cameras I am totally your man though

Donald Qualls · Oct 25, 2022

If you do find that film too fogged for normal use, you might consider cold development (below 60 F) with a single-agent developer (like D-23 or Rodinal) and a few tens of milligrams of benzotriazole in each tank. I had good results recently with Kodak Verichrome (original ortho version) exposed in the 1950s and processed in D-23 + borax + 1 tablet of "Anti-Fog No. 1" -- every exposed frame was good. I had the advantage of being able to develop by inspection, but you'll be able to do single sheet tests to get an acceptable combination of EI, fog, and contrast.

pentaxuser · Oct 25, 2022

cmacd123 said:
if stored in an air conditions space, that stock I would expect to be useable with some fog, if in date but spending two summers in 32C temps I would expect some fog. the combo, would give even more fog.

That a lot of fogs but if the lighthouse's fog horn can be made operative again then fog needn't be that serious

pentaxuser

Tim Stapp · Oct 25, 2022

Jay Schrotenboer said:
I am not actually that familiar with the lighthouse other than some information I have read online. Last year when I got my 4x5 camera and made myself a darkroom I decided I wanted to try and photograph all of Michigan’s remaining lights, no small task. The idea of getting involved with people that regularly do work on them would be helpful to my goals, but I fear I would get in the way with my lack of experience and skills in that field. If you ever need a warm body that comes with a few cameras I am totally your man though

Jay, you might want to check out the https://www.preservewhiteshoal.org/. Brent is always looking for volunteers. Only drawback is that it's about 20 miles west of the bridge IN Lake Michigan.

Jay Schrotenboer · Oct 25, 2022

Tim Stapp said:
Jay, you might want to check out the https://www.preservewhiteshoal.org/. Brent is always looking for volunteers. Only drawback is that it's about 20 miles west of the bridge IN Lake Michigan.

As long as the drawback isn’t that I have to swim those 20 miles I can probably find a way to overcome. Thanks the information, I will look into and hopefully find a way I can be helpful sometime.

Juan Valdenebro · Oct 25, 2022

I've had the same situation, but with 35mm film, never with sheets.
I was able to make the film work with precision (fog and speed loss) but in my case it was film for handholding (Tri-X), so in the end I felt it made no sense using a material that was below perfect.
It all depends: if the damage you find isn't wild, I'd say for tripod work it could be useable.
Good luck!

Don_ih · Oct 26, 2022

With that extreme range of temperatures, I'd be more worried about physical damage to the emulsion than fog. I'd expect it's reticulated.

Anon Ymous · Oct 26, 2022

Don Heisz said:
With that extreme range of temperatures, I'd be more worried about physical damage to the emulsion than fog. I'd expect it's reticulated.

Probably not. The temperature swing is slow.

Don_ih · Oct 26, 2022

Anon Ymous said:
Probably not. The temperature swing is slow.

It's about the same temperature swing that a roll of film suffered in my car for a year. That developed looking like a dried mud puddle.

Anon Ymous · Oct 26, 2022

Don Heisz said:
It's about the same temperature swing that a roll of film suffered in my car for a year. That developed looking like a dried mud puddle.

Oh, I see. I've left 400TX in a shed, where temperature reaches 40+ in the summer and as low as zero in the winter. Mine was fine apart from some fog, nothing too bad.

Minox · Oct 26, 2022

I recently developed a roll of Agfa Color 200, expired a long time ago (+10 yrs). I processed it in Rodinal Special as BW negative, at 22*C. The film came out just fine, and it does look printable.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 26, 2022

What about after normal film is exposed?

Expired film-usable?

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